Manalucie - Hybrid or OP?

[Mark0820]

There is conflicting information on the Internet as to whether Manalucie is a hybrid or OP. Does anyone know for certain?

[Fusion_power]

both Manalucie and Manapal are open pollinated tomato varieties that were developed for Florida conditions. While both are decent tomatoes, I would suggest Tropic as a better alternative.

Tropic (216) - Breeder: Florida Agr. Expt. Sta., Bradenton. Parentage: 479-6-1 CASTME x 18-D2-D4-8-1. Characteristics: trellis type, vigorous vine, fruit large, attractive, and deep in polar dimension. Resistance: race 1 fusarium and verticillium wilts, gray leaf spot and graywall. Similar: Manalucie and Manapal. Adaptation: southeastern United States. Univ. of Florida Agr. Expt. Sta. Circ. S-198, 1969.

DarJones

[carolyn137]

Manalucie was released in 1953 and while it may have been bred for FL conditions it was also grown here in the NE and did very well, along with Valiant and Marglobe and others.

I remember it well from helping out on the farm until I left go to college.

As you know seeds are still available but I don't know anyone up here who still grows it. They moved on to other varieties long ago.

But Fusion has suggested an alternative for you, or you can grow both and see what you think.

Edited to say yes, it definitely is OP.

[Mark0820]

DarJones: Thanks for the information. Your warning to me about Reimer Seeds (in another post) was right on the money. They were one of companies listing Manalucie as a hybrid. I've looked at their website in the past, and luckily I have never ordered seeds from them.

Carolyn: Thanks for your information. I found the seed at Sandhill, so I know where to buy it (if I decide to).


I was actually considering it as a potential rootstock. I'm thinking of experimenting with grafting 2 or 3 plants this year. From what I have read (and videos I have watched on grafting), it sounds like a first time grafter tends to lose a fairly high proportion of their grafted plants. Therefore, I thought I would just use a hybrid as my rootstock for my first attempt at grafting (before moving into commercial rootstocks). I am considering Big Beef or Juliet for the rootstock (Manalucie still might be an option. It has vigerous growth and good disease resistance).

In all honesty, disease usually isn't a huge problem here. Early blight is the biggest issue. I have never used a spray in the past, so if I just incorporated a spray program until the first fruit set, that would probably be all I need for the Early Blight. My plants always outgrow the disease.

I am curious though how a rootstock might impact a spindley tomato plant like a paste tomato (or even a heart; which I have never grown). I would like to see what impact, if any, a vigerous rootstock might have on this type of tomato plant. To my knowledge (the Internet searches I have conducted), paste varieties haven't been included in the research on grafting.

[Mark0820]

Based on the information I have been able to find, it appears Manalucie has some level of disease resistance to the following:

Blossom end rot ???
Gray leaf mold
Early blight
Fusarium wilt

Can someone tell me if this information looks right to them? It is a little unusual to see an OP variety with listed disease resistance (more often associated with hybrids).

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by Mark0820

Based on the information I have been able to find, it appears Manalucie has some level of disease resistance to the following:

Blossom end rot ???
Gray leaf mold
Early blight
Fusarium wilt

Can someone tell me if this information looks right to them? It is a little unusual to see an OP variety with listed disease resistance (more often associated with hybrids).

There are about 8 different verions of Rutger's and that's b'c while it remainsa OP, certain genes have been bred into it including Fusarium, only race 1 and you don't have Fusarium in cincy. No gene has been IDed for BER so that's probably just an anecdotal comment that's been made by someone who didn't see BER in a summer season, Grey Leaf spot I can't speak to and while I've seen several comments about Manalucie being tolerant to BLIGHT, it's never been IDed as being Early Blight ( A. solani) so I think that's just an anecdotal comment as well. Most folks use the word blight to indicate jsut a sick tomato plant.

Darrel cut and pasted the info about Tropic from the NCSU Cultivar list and I just went to do the same with Manalucie and it's not even listed.

Since you're in a probably a zoine 5 area, I lose this post if I go back to check, I don't see how any of those that you listed will be of help to you in growing tomatoes there. No Fusarium, grey Leaf Mold, not common, no gene for BER and no documented indication that it's tolerant to Early Blight. Few varieties are so documented and not at a high level.

So, will it be Manalucie?

What specific tomato diseases do you have there? I doubt many systemic soil borne ones, which leaves the four major Foliage diseases, two fungal and two bacterial, and that doesn't include Late Blight ( P. infestans), which was a problem for many two years ago, but much less this past season as tracked by Cornell. And I sit in the middle of the LAte Blight area myself, or should I say my tomatoes do.

[Mark0820]

Originally Posted by carolyn137

Since you're in a probably a zoine 5 area, I lose this post if I go back to check, I don't see how any of those that you listed will be of help to you in growing tomatoes there. No Fusarium, grey Leaf Mold, not common, no gene for BER and no documented indication that it's tolerant to Early Blight. Few varieties are so documented and not at a high level.

So, will it be Manalucie?

What specific tomato diseases do you have there? I doubt many systemic soil borne ones, which leaves the four major Foliage diseases, two fungal and two bacterial, and that doesn't include Late Blight ( P. infestans), which was a problem for many two years ago, but much less this past season as tracked by Cornell. And I sit in the middle of the LAte Blight area myself, or should I say my tomatoes do.

You are correct, a large portion of Ohio is in zone 5, but the southern most part is zone 6a (includes cincy). Manalucie interested me for two reasons: 1. heat tolerance to 90-95 degrees and the disease tolerance.

I was thinking of grafting 2 or 3 tomato plants using Manalucie as the root stock as an experiment this year (didn't want to pay for commercial root stock for just 2 or 3 plants). Last summer, I contacted Matt Kleinhenz at OSU about grafting, and he said most of the research to date has dealt with soil borne diseases and not heat tolerance (I had asked whether heat tolerance would carry over in a root stock).

As you point out, soil borne diseases aren't a major issue here. Early blight is my biggest problem (luckily I have never had late blight). Based on the information you provided, and information I have gathered, I think I am coming to the conclusion that grafting has little to no value to me.

OSU recommends the active ingredient chlorothalonil (Ortho Max contains 29%) for early blight. I guess my time is better spent spraying my plants from the time I plant them until the first fruit set rather than spend it on grafting. This will get my plants off to a good start and keep them healthier throughout the entire year. I have never sprayed tomato plants before (I try to minimize the use of chemicals), but I doubt I would have to spray beyond the first fruit set (as early blight arrives here early in the season).

[travis]

"Major achievements in the Florida breeding program have been the development of disease-resistant varieties and the improvement of fruit quality. Manalucie, developed by breeder J.M. Walter, was a major breeding achievement of the 1950s, due to its multiple disease resistance and improved fruit quality." http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/ag213

Magazine format: http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/pdffiles/AG/AG21300.pdf

Here is an older document that shows there was concern for the contamination by cross pollination of Manalucie seed stock resulting in the loss of some disease resistance:
http://www.fshs.org/Proceedings/Pass...%20(STALL).pdf

[carolyn137]

Travis, when I was Googling I came across an even older link describing Dr. Walter's work and Manalucie and friends, but I couldn't document which specific disease tolerances had been bred into Manalucie, which is why I read much more, but most of it anecdotal as I said above.

Mark, yes, you can help prevent Early Blight with Daconil ( cholorothalonil) and the Ortho product is fine. Actually there are other brand names out there as well that market Daconil but you have to be sure you get the 29.6% active ingredient ones. When LB hit here last year I used one called Fung-o Nil, I think it's Bonide.

I can tell you haven't had to deal with Late Blight b'c if you had you'd for sure know about Daconil. it will help prevent the two fungal foliage pathogens and is the best for trying to prevent LB infection as well. And as long as you aren't speaking to the two bacterial foliage diseases I won't either.

[travis]

Here is a document from IFAS confirming early blight resistance in Manalucie.
http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/pdffiles/VH/VH02800.pdf

[Mark0820]

Travis: Thanks for the information. The articles were interesting. I liked the history of the different tomato varieties over time. This is a little off topic, but the article mentioned improvements in fruit firmness. About 6 years ago, I tried a tomato called Tiffany. It produced a lot of tomatoes, but they were so hard I never ate them. When fully ripe, they felt like a green tomato. It gave a whole new meaning to fruit firmness.

Carolyn: Thanks for your insights. Last week when I placed my Sand Hill order, I ordered a pack of BCW. I don't have space to plant it this year, but at least I know I have the right seed.