Has anyone tried growing tomatoes in a mediterranean climate...

[katkoot]

Without irrigation? My husband and I may be moving to Jordan in a bit and they grow their tomatoes there starting in the spring with the rains and then all through the dry summer-- without ever watering. I know tomatoes have huge root systems, and so I was wondering if this was perhaps possible for all tomatoes (as long as you started early enough to get the root system going) or if this was a special trait they had selected for over the years... or perhaps a mix of both!

I planned on trying out several heirlooms, but figured I would see if anyone here has done something similar.

Thanks!

Julianna

[habitat_gardener]

I'm in California, where some market growers offer dry-farmed tomatoes. The tomatoes are smaller but much tastier -- water restriction concentrates the flavors. Here are some links:
http://www.sfgate.com/homeandgarden/...em-3169535.php
http://www.happyboyfarms.com/our-pro...armed_Tomatoes
http://sustainableseedco.com/dry-farmed-tomatoes/
http://www.npr.org/blogs/thesalt/201...-off-the-water

One of my neighbors at the community garden doesn't water her tomatoes after July 1. Her tomato beds are well mulched, probably 4 inches of mulch.

Tepary beans from the arid southwest are also supposed to produce a crop (dried beans) with just rainfall when they're planted, and then no water for the rest of the season.

[b54red]

We had several years of drought down here and the biggest problem I saw with lack of water besides smaller fruit was the tendency of tomato plants to drop blooms without setting fruit when it was really really dry. During those drought years I finally found a mulch that did much better holding water and maintaining slightly cooler soil and that was cypress mulch. If you could find a good enough mulch and apply it heavily enough and give the plants a good drink of water when they start blooming you should do okay.

I would think some of the more durable summer hardy plants like Indian Stripe, Druzba, Neves Azorean Red, Lumpy Red, or Andrew Rahart's Jumbo Red would be suitable. Big Beef would be a good hybrid since it always did well during the droughts for me and after nearly forty years of growing tomatoes I would still rank it as the most dependable producer year in and year out.

Bill

[aconite]

i grow a part of my plants in a very dry climate in my coastal house garden, without irrigation. the most crucial part in my opinion is picking the right varieties. forget anything russian, ukranian, german etc. stick with italian,spanish,hawaiian etc.
getting them in the ground while there is still some moisture is the next step. they need to develop deep roots before everything dries out.
this year i am looking forward to trying a variety that supposedly grows easily without water for months,a wild tomato from spain. i cant link directly to it, look here for "Wildtomate La Palma": http://www.semillas.de/cgi-bin/shop/...samen&cart_id=
other varieties i've had luck with were sungolds, costoluto genovese, principe borghese, a local oxheart, striped stuffer,aussie to some extent and interestingly, sprite.
i think you should check what they are growing locally, those will be your best bets, surely they have some well adapted varieties.

[Conchi Laurent]

Hello
A farmer in Malaga, southern Spain, where it is very hot I was told that tomatoes grown without irrigation.
He furrows. He planted the tomato plant at the bottom of the furrow , the tomatoes must be sufficiently spaced from each other .
Gradually, it spade and back from the land of high di furrow to plant. This will provide him from moisture. After a moment , he must have a small mountain ( hill ) surrounding the plant.
It does not tutors. Never any size stem or branch. Branches and stems of tomato plant fall around the mountain ( hill ) of land. This causes the cover sheet and keep the soil moisture.
In Lanzarote , Canary Islands, freshwater is lacking . They grow vines and vegetables on a very sandy soil as follows:
There are big holes in the ground (I think 1X1 M or more) and they plant down the bottom of the hole ( without guardians) . The hole isolated wind and creates moisture for the plant.
I saw in a Spanish forum people who grew immense fields of tomatoes without water. The only thing they did was to go quite often pure tractor beaker and bring moisture to plants and they never prune the stems and they never tie the plants to stakes . Allowed to grow bush.

[Conchi Laurent]

I found a Spanish blog this technique: "The process of these upland crops seems simple: deep plowing, incorporation of manure and surface plows to break down the clods definitely work the land until it is loose and fluffy ball.. then plant the tomato plants in late May or early June, making a hole for each bury in which everything (the tomato is capable of forming roots on its stem in contact with the ground), and here yes, do a risk to eliminate air pockets around the roots and ensure moisture in its early days. from here, all the work will be limited to keep the loose surface and weed free soil, eliminating the surface crust generated for possible rain or footsteps. "

secano.JPG

[Doug9345]

I also think that I'd look closely at how the locals are growing tomatoes. They've been there a long time and have figured out at least one way to grow them.

[katkoot]

Originally Posted by habitat_gardener

I'm in California, where some market growers offer dry-farmed tomatoes. The tomatoes are smaller but much tastier -- water restriction concentrates the flavors. Here are some links:
http://www.sfgate.com/homeandgarden/...em-3169535.php
http://www.happyboyfarms.com/our-pro...armed_Tomatoes
http://sustainableseedco.com/dry-farmed-tomatoes/
http://www.npr.org/blogs/thesalt/201...-off-the-water

One of my neighbors at the community garden doesn't water her tomatoes after July 1. Her tomato beds are well mulched, probably 4 inches of mulch.

Tepary beans from the arid southwest are also supposed to produce a crop (dried beans) with just rainfall when they're planted, and then no water for the rest of the season.

Habitat Gardener-- thanks for the awesome links! I am going to look through these. I figured some people here had possibly even tried this. I know it works, and that's what I had thought-- it would result in smaller fruit with a more concentrated flavor. In Jordan they do it traditionally with no mulch at all, although I feel like it certainly couldn't hurt. We're wanting to set up grey water, but I would like to be familiar with the traditional ins and outs just in case.

[katkoot]

Originally Posted by Doug9345

I also think that I'd look closely at how the locals are growing tomatoes. They've been there a long time and have figured out at least one way to grow them.

I failed to mention this (well not really failed, but when you come to a forum you're never quite sure how people will react to small pieces of information like this) but my husband is from there and has grown tomatoes his whole life. So I know all the local ins and outs of how it is done But they also practice some really destructive things like full on plowing several times per year for weed control. They have a huge wind erosion problem. So we have been discussing ways around this.

[katkoot]

Bill,

Thanks for the suggestions for varieties and your experience! They don't sell mulch, but you're giving me some ideas as to what may work that I can cobble together for myself. Luckily, their drought season isn't really what we would consider deathly hot-- they get maybe 3-5 days above 90*.

Originally Posted by b54red

We had several years of drought down here and the biggest problem I saw with lack of water besides smaller fruit was the tendency of tomato plants to drop blooms without setting fruit when it was really really dry. During those drought years I finally found a mulch that did much better holding water and maintaining slightly cooler soil and that was cypress mulch. If you could find a good enough mulch and apply it heavily enough and give the plants a good drink of water when they start blooming you should do okay.

I would think some of the more durable summer hardy plants like Indian Stripe, Druzba, Neves Azorean Red, Lumpy Red, or Andrew Rahart's Jumbo Red would be suitable. Big Beef would be a good hybrid since it always did well during the droughts for me and after nearly forty years of growing tomatoes I would still rank it as the most dependable producer year in and year out.

Bill

[katkoot]

Yes, they have one tomato they grow locally, although no one knows where the seed comes from (apparently, no one has thought to ask lol). It's probably a full-sized tomato, but it puts out "salad sized" fruits. My husband says you need to put them in by the end of February and then everything is fine since they will get another 2 months of rain and then maybe a shower or two in May.

I had kind of suspected what you were saying regarding the types. I do have some of the tomatoes that are Russian, etc, although since we were also going to hoop house some in the winter (freezes like once every 10 years for maybe 2 hours in that area, but it's worth just putting up the hoop house to raise some night temps), I thought those may work for that.

I'm writing all these suggestions down on my list. I really appreciate it!

Originally Posted by aconite

i grow a part of my plants in a very dry climate in my coastal house garden, without irrigation. the most crucial part in my opinion is picking the right varieties. forget anything russian, ukranian, german etc. stick with italian,spanish,hawaiian etc.
getting them in the ground while there is still some moisture is the next step. they need to develop deep roots before everything dries out.
this year i am looking forward to trying a variety that supposedly grows easily without water for months,a wild tomato from spain. i cant link directly to it, look here for "Wildtomate La Palma": http://www.semillas.de/cgi-bin/shop/...samen&cart_id=
other varieties i've had luck with were sungolds, costoluto genovese, principe borghese, a local oxheart, striped stuffer,aussie to some extent and interestingly, sprite.
i think you should check what they are growing locally, those will be your best bets, surely they have some well adapted varieties.

[katkoot]

They furrow like that in the Southern or drier parts of Jordan but everywhere they don't stake and just let the plants bush. He said they only get to be 2.5-3ft tall, but since he didn't know what a determinate or indeterminate was, that piece is lost. I'm wondering if they are growing a determinate type.

Originally Posted by Conchi Laurent

Hello
A farmer in Malaga, southern Spain, where it is very hot I was told that tomatoes grown without irrigation.
He furrows. He planted the tomato plant at the bottom of the furrow , the tomatoes must be sufficiently spaced from each other .
Gradually, it spade and back from the land of high di furrow to plant. This will provide him from moisture. After a moment , he must have a small mountain ( hill ) surrounding the plant.
It does not tutors. Never any size stem or branch. Branches and stems of tomato plant fall around the mountain ( hill ) of land. This causes the cover sheet and keep the soil moisture.
In Lanzarote , Canary Islands, freshwater is lacking . They grow vines and vegetables on a very sandy soil as follows:
There are big holes in the ground (I think 1X1 M or more) and they plant down the bottom of the hole ( without guardians) . The hole isolated wind and creates moisture for the plant.
I saw in a Spanish forum people who grew immense fields of tomatoes without water. The only thing they did was to go quite often pure tractor beaker and bring moisture to plants and they never prune the stems and they never tie the plants to stakes . Allowed to grow bush.

[katkoot]

You know, I hadn't even thought of the fact that it could also be adding an additional root system. They don't stake anything there, so I had figured it was about cost (my husband said he thought it was about cost and effort as well). But maybe there is the rooting benefit.

Originally Posted by Conchi Laurent

I found a Spanish blog this technique: "The process of these upland crops seems simple: deep plowing, incorporation of manure and surface plows to break down the clods definitely work the land until it is loose and fluffy ball.. then plant the tomato plants in late May or early June, making a hole for each bury in which everything (the tomato is capable of forming roots on its stem in contact with the ground), and here yes, do a risk to eliminate air pockets around the roots and ensure moisture in its early days. from here, all the work will be limited to keep the loose surface and weed free soil, eliminating the surface crust generated for possible rain or footsteps. "

Attachment 41263

[habitat_gardener]

In the arid southwest, sunken beds rather than raised beds are used, which conserves water and can protect plants from the wind (depending on depth) -- sounds similar to what Conchi Laurent describes.

[katkoot]

Yes-- waffle gardens! We were looking at that as well. I've heard they do something similar in the south but not in his area. So that is another consideration.