iron chlorosis, blight, or WHAT? - Page 2

Shapshftr · August 13, 2016

Your plants are showing classic signs of N depletion. The pale color is a lack of nitrogen. The purple coloring is P deficiency, likely caused by lack of N.

"Nitrogen is a critical nutrient for your plants but it is very unstable in soil. It is easily and quickly converted from one form to another and it is easily washed away by water. Your plants can have lots of nitrogen available in the morning and after a good rain have a shortage. As a gardener you never know how much nitrogen is available to your plants because the situation changes so quickly. Nitrogen is the nutrient that is most likely to be in short supply for your plants."

"A lack of nitrogen reduces the plants ability to absorb phosphorus. Consequently, the plant shows symptoms of phosphorus deficiency. In this case adding more phosphorus will not not help the situation since there is no phosphorus deficiency. Adding nitrogen to the soil solves the problem, and will make the phosphorus deficiency symptoms go away."

"When fertilizer is applied to the soil, potassium sticks to soil and moves slowly through the soil layers. Each time it rains, a bit of potassium is dissolved and moves deeper in the soil. It moves faster than phosphorus but not nearly as fast as nitrogen. This means that the potassium in fertilizer sprinkled on top of the soil takes a while to reach plant roots but once there it is available to plants for a extended time."

I can clearly see that the nitrogen has been washed out of your pots and fertilized the grass around them. Your pots should have bottom trays to contain the water that seeps through. You can add that water back to the pots, or leave it for them to soak back up, rather than letting go into the ground. That NPK ratio with 30% P is way higher than needed, since P stays in the soil for a LONG TIME. It's the Nitrogen you lost and need to replace. Without a soil test you are merely throwing stuff at the plants in amounts that could do more harm than good. If I were in your situation, I would simply feed them some liquid fish emulsion weekly, but also to a soil test to know what else may be lacking, or too high!

http://www.gardenfundamentals.com/fe...ant-nutrients/

dmforcier · August 13, 2016

I don't agree about the under-trays. Setting the plants in a pool of water virtually ensures a level of soil saturation. Saturated soil drowns roots. Plus a good rain will overflow the trays anyway.

I do use under-trays in hot, dry weather where the dried out soil needs extra time to soak up the applied water. But I always check that the trays are empty shortly after watering.

Shapshftr · August 13, 2016

Quote:

Originally Posted by dmforcier

I don't agree about the under-trays. Setting the plants in a pool of water virtually ensures a level of soil saturation. Saturated soil drowns roots. Plus a good rain will overflow the trays anyway.

I do use under-trays in hot, dry weather where the dried out soil needs extra time to soak up the applied water. But I always check that the trays are empty shortly after watering.

That's what under trays are designed for, so the plants only wick up moisture as needed. It's when the pots don't have drains that the soil stays soggy. I have plants growing outdoors in pots on my porch. They get heavy rains and fill up the trays. Within a day or two it's all gone.

Another issue that may be affecting his plants is the bare soil, heating up in the sun. I'll bet that soil is way too hot for the plant roots. It would be better to have a thick layer of mulch on top of it.

dmforcier · August 13, 2016

Hmm. Perhaps the blue pots absorb heat? I have to put my unshaded (black) pots in plastic bags to keep the temps down. He should use the Mk. I or Mk. II Palm Sensor to determine just how hot the pot gets.

Mulch would be good unless there's a moisture retention problem. (Probably no problem since his dirt looks good.)

MadCow333 · August 14, 2016

She. MadCow333 is a she. lol

All good points. I wondered about the blue pots and heating the roots, too. Last year wasn't nearly as hot. I used pale tan pots and turquiose pots. The tan pots hold more dirt, are larger, and have a wide flat base. The turquoise ones grew LaRomaII plants only. I'm not liking these smaller pots for indeterminants. The wind tips them over in storms.

Fish emulsion, I used earlier in the season. And every time i used it, some critter dug in the pots and damaged the plants. I didn't like the odor, either. I don't have AC, and windows s stay open. I dont want to smell stale swamp odor 24/7.

MadCow333 · August 14, 2016

Excellent post, Shapshftr. I think what I'll do next year is raised beds instead of these pots. They only work well for determinates. I used them because I bought over 80 of them for $0.25 each on clearance.

It's going to be challenging to try to finish out the season. My well is now going dry and rusty due to drought, lol. Storms are flogging us with wind and hail and flash floods. Temperature is cooling off a bit, though. I'm going to soon ditch some of the plants like Independence Day and Early Girl that ain't done much all summer.

Shapshftr · August 14, 2016

Quote:

Originally Posted by dmforcier

Hmm. Perhaps the blue pots absorb heat? I have to put my unshaded (black) pots in plastic bags to keep the temps down. He should use the Mk. I or Mk. II Palm Sensor to determine just how hot the pot gets.

Mulch would be good unless there's a moisture retention problem. (Probably no problem since his dirt looks good.)

I agree DM, the blue pots are probably heating up too. I use plastic two gallon buckets for dog water. I use a white one for outside so the poor dogs aren't drinking hot water. Maybe she could tape some white garbage bags around those pots.

Shapshftr · August 14, 2016

Quote:

Originally Posted by MadCow333

She. MadCow333 is a she. lol

All good points. I wondered about the blue pots and heating the roots, too. Last year wasn't nearly as hot. I used pale tan pots and turquiose pots. The tan pots hold more dirt, are larger, and have a wide flat base. The turquoise ones grew LaRomaII plants only. I'm not liking these smaller pots for indeterminants. The wind tips them over in storms.

Fish emulsion, I used earlier in the season. And every time i used it, some critter dug in the pots and damaged the plants. I didn't like the odor, either. I don't have AC, and windows s stay open. I dont want to smell stale swamp odor 24/7.

Sorry MadCow, gender never crossed my mind, LOL. I'm a she too. Nice to meet you. Sorry to hear about all your troubles. Hope things get better for you all around!

The critter that would have dug in your pots would be a raccoon, looking for fish to eat.

dmforcier · August 14, 2016

Quote:

Originally Posted by MadCow333

She. MadCow333 is a she. lol

Oooops!!

'He' is a generic pronoun. Yeah, that's the ticket.

MadCow333 · August 15, 2016

The weather settled down to normal rains, cooler temps, etc. That should be easier on the tomatoes than getting cooked and desiccated the way they did the past month. :-) Forecast is for a warm and dry fall, though. I've got quite a few really nice Parks Whopper Improved tomatoes ripening now. Gotta get out there at dawn's early light and get them picked before the t-storms start up in the afternoon.

MadCow333 · August 18, 2016

All the problem children have been greening up nicely after heavy fertilization in spite of getting pommeled by t-storms, strong winds, and hail for 2.5 days this week. All plants resemble the Leaning Tower of Pisa now because the storms flattened them and rolled them around the yard a bit. Fortunately I picked all blushing and ripe toms before the storms started. All toms are safe indoors. :/

But something has been eating the new growth off that German Queen. I wonder if it's the deer that crosses over from the field across the road.

dmforcier · August 18, 2016

I dunno. I think deer would go for the fruit first -- at least mine did. I got some foliage nibbles, but it was almost like they were clearing the way toward the fruit. I have to say, though, that whatever it was, it took small stems too, which is not typical of hornworm, a great non-hoofed defoliating machine.

Hellmanns · August 18, 2016

Classic hornworm damage.

Shapshftr · August 20, 2016

They sure do look better since feeding. I agree with Hellmanns, looks like hornworm damage to me.

MadCow333 · August 22, 2016

Well, now I guess I can go inspect for hornworms. But I haven't seen any thus far. Sneaky bastages.

August 13, 2016	#17
dmforcier Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Apr 2016 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 3,825	I don't agree about the under-trays. Setting the plants in a pool of water virtually ensures a level of soil saturation. Saturated soil drowns roots. Plus a good rain will overflow the trays anyway. I do use under-trays in hot, dry weather where the dried out soil needs extra time to soak up the applied water. But I always check that the trays are empty shortly after watering. __________________ Stupidity got us into this mess. Why can't it get us out? - Will Rogers

August 13, 2016	#19
dmforcier Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Apr 2016 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 3,825	Hmm. Perhaps the blue pots absorb heat? I have to put my unshaded (black) pots in plastic bags to keep the temps down. He should use the Mk. I or Mk. II Palm Sensor to determine just how hot the pot gets. Mulch would be good unless there's a moisture retention problem. (Probably no problem since his dirt looks good.) __________________ Stupidity got us into this mess. Why can't it get us out? - Will Rogers

August 18, 2016	#26
MadCow333 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: NW PA 6A Posts: 159	All the problem children have been greening up nicely after heavy fertilization in spite of getting pommeled by t-storms, strong winds, and hail for 2.5 days this week. All plants resemble the Leaning Tower of Pisa now because the storms flattened them and rolled them around the yard a bit. Fortunately I picked all blushing and ripe toms before the storms started. All toms are safe indoors. :/ But something has been eating the new growth off that German Queen. I wonder if it's the deer that crosses over from the field across the road. Last edited by MadCow333; August 18, 2016 at 07:38 PM.

August 18, 2016	#27
dmforcier Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Apr 2016 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 3,825	I dunno. I think deer would go for the fruit first -- at least mine did. I got some foliage nibbles, but it was almost like they were clearing the way toward the fruit. I have to say, though, that whatever it was, it took small stems too, which is not typical of hornworm, a great non-hoofed defoliating machine. __________________ Stupidity got us into this mess. Why can't it get us out? - Will Rogers

August 13, 2016	#16
Shapshftr Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2016 Location: Illinois Posts: 162	Your plants are showing classic signs of N depletion. The pale color is a lack of nitrogen. The purple coloring is P deficiency, likely caused by lack of N. "Nitrogen is a critical nutrient for your plants but it is very unstable in soil. It is easily and quickly converted from one form to another and it is easily washed away by water. Your plants can have lots of nitrogen available in the morning and after a good rain have a shortage. As a gardener you never know how much nitrogen is available to your plants because the situation changes so quickly. Nitrogen is the nutrient that is most likely to be in short supply for your plants." "A lack of nitrogen reduces the plants ability to absorb phosphorus. Consequently, the plant shows symptoms of phosphorus deficiency. In this case adding more phosphorus will not not help the situation since there is no phosphorus deficiency. Adding nitrogen to the soil solves the problem, and will make the phosphorus deficiency symptoms go away." "When fertilizer is applied to the soil, potassium sticks to soil and moves slowly through the soil layers. Each time it rains, a bit of potassium is dissolved and moves deeper in the soil. It moves faster than phosphorus but not nearly as fast as nitrogen. This means that the potassium in fertilizer sprinkled on top of the soil takes a while to reach plant roots but once there it is available to plants for a extended time." I can clearly see that the nitrogen has been washed out of your pots and fertilized the grass around them. Your pots should have bottom trays to contain the water that seeps through. You can add that water back to the pots, or leave it for them to soak back up, rather than letting go into the ground. That NPK ratio with 30% P is way higher than needed, since P stays in the soil for a LONG TIME. It's the Nitrogen you lost and need to replace. Without a soil test you are merely throwing stuff at the plants in amounts that could do more harm than good. If I were in your situation, I would simply feed them some liquid fish emulsion weekly, but also to a soil test to know what else may be lacking, or too high! http://www.gardenfundamentals.com/fe...ant-nutrients/

August 14, 2016	#20
MadCow333 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: NW PA 6A Posts: 159	She. MadCow333 is a she. lol All good points. I wondered about the blue pots and heating the roots, too. Last year wasn't nearly as hot. I used pale tan pots and turquiose pots. The tan pots hold more dirt, are larger, and have a wide flat base. The turquoise ones grew LaRomaII plants only. I'm not liking these smaller pots for indeterminants. The wind tips them over in storms. Fish emulsion, I used earlier in the season. And every time i used it, some critter dug in the pots and damaged the plants. I didn't like the odor, either. I don't have AC, and windows s stay open. I dont want to smell stale swamp odor 24/7.

August 15, 2016	#25
MadCow333 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: NW PA 6A Posts: 159	The weather settled down to normal rains, cooler temps, etc. That should be easier on the tomatoes than getting cooked and desiccated the way they did the past month. :-) Forecast is for a warm and dry fall, though. I've got quite a few really nice Parks Whopper Improved tomatoes ripening now. Gotta get out there at dawn's early light and get them picked before the t-storms start up in the afternoon.

August 18, 2016	#28
Hellmanns Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jul 2014 Location: kentucky Posts: 1,116	Classic hornworm damage.

August 20, 2016	#29
Shapshftr Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2016 Location: Illinois Posts: 162	They sure do look better since feeding. I agree with Hellmanns, looks like hornworm damage to me.

August 22, 2016	#30
MadCow333 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: NW PA 6A Posts: 159	Well, now I guess I can go inspect for hornworms. But I haven't seen any thus far. Sneaky bastages.