Belly-Button / Stitching ...

Tomstrees · January 17, 2007

Happy New Year everyone ~

This may have been over-looked in another thread...

Just a quick question in regards to genetic vs. environmental traits:

Are belly buttons / stitching in tomatoes genetic
or caused by environmental conditions ?

Like radial cracking
(if belly buttons / stitching ARE genetic)
could you identify a variety by its stitching or
belly-button ?

~ Tom

**Lee** · January 17, 2007

My guess is that stiching is caused by environmental conditions, but there are varieties with a genetic trait that makes them more prone to the stiching.

Lee

Tomstrees · January 17, 2007

What environmental condition causes stitching /
Belly-buttons ?

A tomato would have a gene in it that would support these blemishes ?

Tom

**carolyn137** · January 17, 2007

I've never seen any genetic data on belly buttons or black stiching, but based on all the varieties I've grown I consider them to be genetic in origin since the same varieties that have one or the other or both,always seem to have them regardless of environmental conditions.

TomatoDon · January 17, 2007

That topic scared me. I'm glad to see y'all are talking about tomatoes.

Don

barkeater · January 18, 2007

Stitching and belly buttons are a form of catfacing, caused by low temperatures. Some varieties are genetically much more susceptible than others, but any variety can express it with the right environmental conditions.

I remember one year where pretty much every farmer in Monmouth County, NJ, were picking tomatoes for about 10 days with folded over belly buttons at the blossom end, regardless of variety, myself included.

Customers were appalled that the tomatoes had "holes" in them. LOL

Tomstrees · January 18, 2007

I've had catfaced tomatoes -
but never belly-buttons or stitching ...
could be the varieites I grown ~

I received (through trade) a variety
that has "belly-button" in the name ...
Fairly sure the description has a pink fruit
that developes a belly-buttons -
I would think that would mean the tomato
would have belly-buttons as a trait/genetic ...
What if I never had envirnomental factors that
inhibited a belly-button ?
I'm gonna have to grow it now ...

Interesting ~

Tom

**carolyn137** · January 18, 2007

I've never considered belly buttons and stiching to be forms of catfacing and only seen under cool conditions.

Take Lillian's Yellow Heirloom, for instance, which I've grown many times. Always stiching regardless of the weather. Take AGG, which I've also grown many times and almost always see stiching, regardless of the weather.

And I'd have to go back and review so many of the varieties I've grown, but almost always the same varieties either do or do not have belly buttons, and do or do not have black stiching, regardless of cool conditions or not.

Just my experience growing lots of heirloom varieties since the mid-80's.

Tormato · January 18, 2007

Tom,

What Carolyn said. You have to grow Lillian's Yellow Heirloom and Aunt Gertie's Gold . AGG has more stitching than a baseball.

Gary

Tomstrees · January 18, 2007

Torm,

I grew Lillians last summer ...
It was in a 5-gallon pot and I think I only got a handfull of very late "malformed" fruits ...
I needed those fruits to replenish seed stock
for a very close friend of mine ~

Aunt Gerties Gold has "front-row" in my
garden plans for 2007 ~
I'll def. keep an eye out for its
"baseball-like" traits ! lol ~

Tom

bluelytes · January 18, 2007

Ummmm, not to sound like a total newbie, (but I AM,

), but WHAT is "stitching"??

Regards;
bluelytes

chilhuacle · January 18, 2007

I grew 3 Brad’s Black Heart plants last season. Two were in the ground and one in an 18-gallon tote. The two in the ground produced uniformly heart shaped tomatoes. The plant in the tote produced a few heart shaped fruit but most had stitching and ‘belly buttons’.

Makes me think it’s the growing environment.

The tote fruit…..
http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL160.../173120979.jpg

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bluelytes

WHAT is "stitching"??

Bluelytes, that zipper looking line in the top right tomato.

Tomstrees · January 18, 2007

yup ~ belly-buttons too ~

Tom

bluelytes · January 18, 2007

CHILH,
TYVM!! WHO knew!! I can live with that, its the catfacing I dont much care for.

Regards;
bluelytes

TomatoDon · January 19, 2007

The one on the right looks sorta like mine after a few hours in the sun.

Don

January 17, 2007	#1
Tomstrees Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: NJ Bayshore Posts: 3,848	Belly-Button / Stitching ... Happy New Year everyone ~ This may have been over-looked in another thread... Just a quick question in regards to genetic vs. environmental traits: Are belly buttons / stitching in tomatoes genetic or caused by environmental conditions ? Like radial cracking (if belly buttons / stitching ARE genetic) could you identify a variety by its stitching or belly-button ? ~ Tom __________________ My green thumb came only as a result of the mistakes I made while learning to see things from the plant's point of view. ~ H. Fred Ale

January 17, 2007	#2
Lee Tomatopalooza™ Moderator Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: NC-Zone 7 Posts: 2,188	My guess is that stiching is caused by environmental conditions, but there are varieties with a genetic trait that makes them more prone to the stiching. Lee __________________ Intelligence is knowing a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is knowing not to put one in a fruit salad. Cuostralee - The best thing on sliced bread.

January 17, 2007	#3
Tomstrees Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: NJ Bayshore Posts: 3,848	What environmental condition causes stitching / Belly-buttons ? A tomato would have a gene in it that would support these blemishes ? Tom __________________ My green thumb came only as a result of the mistakes I made while learning to see things from the plant's point of view. ~ H. Fred Ale

January 17, 2007	#4
carolyn137 Moderator Emeritus Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Upstate NY, zone 4b/5a Posts: 21,169	I've never seen any genetic data on belly buttons or black stiching, but based on all the varieties I've grown I consider them to be genetic in origin since the same varieties that have one or the other or both,always seem to have them regardless of environmental conditions. __________________ Carolyn

January 17, 2007	#5
TomatoDon Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: MS Posts: 1,521	That topic scared me. I'm glad to see y'all are talking about tomatoes. Don __________________ Zone 7B, N. MS

January 18, 2007	#6
barkeater Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: NE Kingdom, VT - Zone 3b Posts: 1,439	Stitching and belly buttons are a form of catfacing, caused by low temperatures. Some varieties are genetically much more susceptible than others, but any variety can express it with the right environmental conditions. I remember one year where pretty much every farmer in Monmouth County, NJ, were picking tomatoes for about 10 days with folded over belly buttons at the blossom end, regardless of variety, myself included. Customers were appalled that the tomatoes had "holes" in them. LOL

January 18, 2007	#9
Tormato Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: MA Posts: 4,959	Tom, What Carolyn said. You have to grow Lillian's Yellow Heirloom and Aunt Gertie's Gold . AGG has more stitching than a baseball. Gary

January 18, 2007	#11
bluelytes Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Pacific Northwest Posts: 250	Ummmm, not to sound like a total newbie, (but I AM, ), but WHAT is "stitching"?? Regards; bluelytes

January 18, 2007	#13
Tomstrees Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: NJ Bayshore Posts: 3,848	yup ~ belly-buttons too ~ Tom __________________ My green thumb came only as a result of the mistakes I made while learning to see things from the plant's point of view. ~ H. Fred Ale

January 19, 2007	#15
TomatoDon Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: MS Posts: 1,521	The one on the right looks sorta like mine after a few hours in the sun. Don __________________ Zone 7B, N. MS