Open pollinated Sungold? - Page 2

**carolyn137** · August 19, 2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeannine Anne

I have been pondering my thread for a couple of days and would really like to find some Ambrosia seeds if anyone is able to help.

Thank you

XX Jeannine

Jeannine, if you re read my post #6 above I think you'll see that Ambrosia at this point is not genetically stable.

I said in that post that I may be offering the seeds for the reds, which are not what Ambrosia should be, and if I do it would be in my next seed offer here at Tville. And no, I don't have the seeds now b'c they will be sent to me by the person who got the red fruited ones.

I also said that both Craig, from one of my plants, as well as me with my one plant did get the correct orange ones, but no way will I have enough to even get seeds from it and if Craig gets enough he'll be sending the seeds to me since all who are helping me with seed production send the seeds back to me from the original seeds for a variety that I send to them.

And even having the correct orange ones doesn't mean that they will grow true either, as I explained in that post # 6 above.

The person who bred them thinks he knows what the problem is and is going back to work on this variety until it is stable.

So no genetically stable true Ambrosia seeds to be had at this point, sorry.

I do know of one other person here at Tville who used Ambrosia in a cross for his breeding project but it isn't clear to me that he knows that it isn't stable although I may have mentioned that to him, sorry, just can't remember, but I think I did.

Wi-sunflower · August 19, 2011

2 years ago I got a "Sun Gold OP" from someone here in a trade. While it was supposed to be at least F-5, I think, when I got it, I'm still getting a few red fruited plants from it and the flavor isn't quite up to the F-1. But it's as good if not better when picked dead ripe than the F-1 that many growers pick at first blush to avoid the cracking problems of the ripe F-1s.

I also have my own grow out of the Sun Sugar at F-4 and it too still throws some red fruit. The flavor is good but also not quite as good as the F-1.

The F-1 Sun Sugar is the original company's "improved" Sun Gold. For me Sun Sugar seems to be less crack prone than Sun Gold with about the same flavor.

I had also grown Carolyn's offer of the Big Sun Gold Select last year but I was unfortunate in that all of the plants I got were red instead of orange.

The Sun Gold people came up with a great hybrid tomato that is a TRUE hybrid that still seems to defeat people trying to OP it.

But there are soooo many other good cherries out there that it doesn't matter to me any more.

Carol

**carolyn137** · August 19, 2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wi-sunflower

2 years ago I got a "Sun Gold OP" from someone here in a trade. While it was supposed to be at least F-5, I think, when I got it, I'm still getting a few red fruited plants from it and the flavor isn't quite up to the F-1. But it's as good if not better when picked dead ripe than the F-1 that many growers pick at first blush to avoid the cracking problems of the ripe F-1s.

I also have my own grow out of the Sun Sugar at F-4 and it too still throws some red fruit. The flavor is good but also not quite as good as the F-1.

The F-1 Sun Sugar is the original company's "improved" Sun Gold. For me Sun Sugar seems to be less crack prone than Sun Gold with about the same flavor.

I had also grown Carolyn's offer of the Big Sun Gold Select last year but I was unfortunate in that all of the plants I got were red instead of orange.

The Sun Gold people came up with a great hybrid tomato that is a TRUE hybrid that still seems to defeat people trying to OP it.

But there are soooo many other good cherries out there that it doesn't matter to me any more.

Carol

Carol, I'm trying to figure out what the Sungold OP is that you got from soemone here in a trade. Do you record who you get varieties from perhaps and can check that way?

Sungold Select and Sungold Select II were bred by Reinhard and have been stable from the get go, except where wrong seeds are being offered as is the case with Sungold II at Baker Creek.

Big Sungold is a much larger cherry that the above two, and I've not seen anyone say it was not stable, this one seeds sent directly to Manfred. But the F5 doesn't make sense for that one.

Big Sungold Select you know, so we can eliminate that one.

And it can't be Ambrosia b'c that variety is known as Ambrosia and I doubt would be traded as just an OP Sungold. And the fruits of the orange Ambrosia ones are small like Sungold F1 itself.

I do know that Lee G has been selling seeds for Ambrosia at his seed site and I did mention that other person here who used it in a cross but there it was also noted as Ambrosia.

OK, I almost give up.

Take a look and see what your records say as to who sent it to you.

And I'm surprised that you got ALL red fruited plants with the Big Sungold Select b'c while I know from feedback last eyar that some did get red and perhaps one other color from it, I don't think I remember anyone getting ALL red fruited plants. Brad Gates at his site mentioned the odds on getting anything other than an orange.

And of course I had no idea it wasn't stable when I offered the seeds, and nor did reinhard Kraft when I told him about it.

Jeannine Anne · August 19, 2011

Thank you carolyn,

I have never asked for any of your seeds that you share in the Spring as I am not well known here and not so good at accepting(I am working on that LOL).I still feel like the new kid on the block and don't like to ask. I usually ask for help with links to sources but a few very kind folks have offered me seeds and usually I can find something to return to them.

Perhaps in the Spring I will ask to be included when you send out your seeds if I may if there is anything to do with the Ambrosia. I am not real sure how your offer works but I will watch out for it.

I do have Madame Jardels for you..LOL but need an address!!!

XX Jeannine

Sherry_AK · August 19, 2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by carolyn137

And I'm surprised that you got ALL red fruited plants with the Big Sungold Select b'c while I know from feedback last eyar that some did get red and perhaps one other color from it, I don't think I remember anyone getting ALL red fruited plants.

I also got all red fruits. Seems like I grew 4 plants, but maybe it was just 3. I did post to the old thread about it.

Sherry

**carolyn137** · August 19, 2011

http://www.tomatoville.com/showthread.php?t=16606

Above is the thread for my Jan 2011 seed offer. it has nothing whatsoever as to whether you're well known here or not and when you read you'll see that all are welcome with the restriction that you have to be a registered member here by a certain date.

With this last seed offer there were many folks that I didn't know at all, not a problem as long as they have posted here before and aren't here just looking for seeds.

The above thread from the Trade subforum where most folks who offer seeds don't want any trades, as I state, but then describe under which situations I do offer seeds in return.

Edited to add that I do expect folks to report their germination results and put up a thread for that and then in the early Fall I put up another thread asking for feedback on how the varieties performed.

And I really look for both the germination and performance feedback so that I can make some decisions on what to list for the next year. You'll see that I do offer some older seeds but also describe how I would handle them to help ensure germination/

**carolyn137** · August 19, 2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sherry_AK

I also got all red fruits. Seems like I grew 4 plants, but maybe it was just 3. I did post to the old thread about it.

Sherry

Lucky you Sherry.

And better your memory than mine.

Jeannine Anne · August 19, 2011

Thank you Carolyn, I shall look forward to the 2012 one.

XX Jeannine

**Lee** · August 19, 2011

Sungold Select II is the best OP Sungold around.... bar none....
I've tried 'em all. And we've had the opportunity to trial most all of them
side by side at Tomatopalooza[tm] SG Select II is the closest of them
all. And, it is stable. I've grown it without any differences for >5
years. Not sure what Baker Creek got, but I got my seed from Craig who got his from Reinhard and neither of us have ever seen an off
type.

My SG Select IIs were sometimes better than the Sungolds growing
next to them this year.... that's how good they are.

I offer them in the SSE catalog, and it's probably my most requested
variety.

Lee

Jeannine Anne · August 19, 2011

Thank you Lee, for some reason I forgot to renew my SSE this year but I will look for the seeds. I am getting very interested in all 4 SG OP now.

XX Jeannine

August 20, 2011

I grew Sungold F1 this year anticipating a great cherry tomato. While the limited fruit I got were sugary sweet, they were barely larger than a grape. Other than the unusually sweet taste, they had few virtues to cause me to grow them again. Is the tiny fruit size and low production normal for the variety? I have to admit this has been a horrible year for cheery tomatoes in my garden due to the extremely high heat and dry weather. If those traits are normal for the Sungold F1, will any of the OP attempts improve the fruit size and production while retaining the sweet flavor?

The Sungold F1 fruit were so sweet, they reminded me more of a sweet berry than a tomato. I'm wondering if I really want a tomato that tastes like a sweet berry instead of a tomato.

Ted

fortyonenorth · August 20, 2011

The size seems about right, but its yield has been quite excellent for me - on par or better than other cherries.

kath · August 20, 2011

Sungold F1 has always been a HUGE producer for me which is why I'm often disappointed with the yields of other cherries I trial in my search for an o.p. substitute.

To me it has some zip along with its sweetness, and I don't think there's anything better for snacking right in the garden- I don't harvest them to bring into the house. The fact that it tastes more like a fruit than a tomato is what appeals to me and part of what makes it such a wonderful treat!

Wi-sunflower · August 21, 2011

Sorry for being so long to answer your question Carolyn. Weekends are murder for me right now. We've had rainy Saturdays that have made it necessary to find a Sunday market to get rid of the produce we should have sold on Sat.

I dug out my book and it seems I got the Sun Gold OP from Velikipop (sp?) as I have "Popovich" listed next to the seeding of the Sun Gold OP.

I did post about getting all red fruit from the Big Sun Gold Select also but I don't think it was in your offer thread. I seem to remember there being another thread just about the Big Sun Gold Selects.

i'm sure eventually there will be a good to great OP version of Sun Gold. It's just going to take longer than most of us thought because the original is so different and complex. It's one of my favs too because of the "fruity" flavor.

BTW, at the market today I had 1 pint of "Dr Carolyn" at a new market for us. Someone asked about the name I had on that pint and I told her to "try one" She did and liked it enough she bought the pint. I like it too. We just don't have many plants in the field this year due to problems in the greenhouse this spring.

Carol

Ispahan · August 21, 2011

Why is Sungold seemingly so difficult to dehybridize? It seems like it should be able to be dehybridized just the same as any other F1, but most (maybe all?) of the progeny seem unusually unstable.

Maybe the breeders used some sort of "weird science" to create this wonderful hybrid (i.e., colchicine treatment or radiation) and that has somehow led to genetic instability in subsequent generations. Or maybe they used Harry Potter's wand? :-)

In any case, I will seek out Sungold Select II next season. I love the F1 and can't imagine any cherry tomato quite as unique and good.

August 19, 2011	#21
carolyn137 Moderator Emeritus Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Upstate NY, zone 4b/5a Posts: 21,169	http://www.tomatoville.com/showthread.php?t=16606 Above is the thread for my Jan 2011 seed offer. it has nothing whatsoever as to whether you're well known here or not and when you read you'll see that all are welcome with the restriction that you have to be a registered member here by a certain date. With this last seed offer there were many folks that I didn't know at all, not a problem as long as they have posted here before and aren't here just looking for seeds. The above thread from the Trade subforum where most folks who offer seeds don't want any trades, as I state, but then describe under which situations I do offer seeds in return. Edited to add that I do expect folks to report their germination results and put up a thread for that and then in the early Fall I put up another thread asking for feedback on how the varieties performed. And I really look for both the germination and performance feedback so that I can make some decisions on what to list for the next year. You'll see that I do offer some older seeds but also describe how I would handle them to help ensure germination/ __________________ Carolyn

August 19, 2011	#24
Lee Tomatopalooza™ Moderator Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: NC-Zone 7 Posts: 2,186	Sungold Select II is the best OP Sungold around.... bar none.... I've tried 'em all. And we've had the opportunity to trial most all of them side by side at Tomatopalooza[tm] SG Select II is the closest of them all. And, it is stable. I've grown it without any differences for >5 years. Not sure what Baker Creek got, but I got my seed from Craig who got his from Reinhard and neither of us have ever seen an off type. My SG Select IIs were sometimes better than the Sungolds growing next to them this year.... that's how good they are. I offer them in the SSE catalog, and it's probably my most requested variety. Lee __________________ Intelligence is knowing a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is knowing not to put one in a fruit salad. Cuostralee - The best thing on sliced bread.

August 19, 2011	#17
Wi-sunflower Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 2,591	2 years ago I got a "Sun Gold OP" from someone here in a trade. While it was supposed to be at least F-5, I think, when I got it, I'm still getting a few red fruited plants from it and the flavor isn't quite up to the F-1. But it's as good if not better when picked dead ripe than the F-1 that many growers pick at first blush to avoid the cracking problems of the ripe F-1s. I also have my own grow out of the Sun Sugar at F-4 and it too still throws some red fruit. The flavor is good but also not quite as good as the F-1. The F-1 Sun Sugar is the original company's "improved" Sun Gold. For me Sun Sugar seems to be less crack prone than Sun Gold with about the same flavor. I had also grown Carolyn's offer of the Big Sun Gold Select last year but I was unfortunate in that all of the plants I got were red instead of orange. The Sun Gold people came up with a great hybrid tomato that is a TRUE hybrid that still seems to defeat people trying to OP it. But there are soooo many other good cherries out there that it doesn't matter to me any more. Carol

August 19, 2011	#19
Jeannine Anne Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Canada Posts: 1,553	Thank you carolyn, I have never asked for any of your seeds that you share in the Spring as I am not well known here and not so good at accepting(I am working on that LOL).I still feel like the new kid on the block and don't like to ask. I usually ask for help with links to sources but a few very kind folks have offered me seeds and usually I can find something to return to them. Perhaps in the Spring I will ask to be included when you send out your seeds if I may if there is anything to do with the Ambrosia. I am not real sure how your offer works but I will watch out for it. I do have Madame Jardels for you..LOL but need an address!!! XX Jeannine

August 20, 2011	#26
tedln Guest Posts: n/a	I grew Sungold F1 this year anticipating a great cherry tomato. While the limited fruit I got were sugary sweet, they were barely larger than a grape. Other than the unusually sweet taste, they had few virtues to cause me to grow them again. Is the tiny fruit size and low production normal for the variety? I have to admit this has been a horrible year for cheery tomatoes in my garden due to the extremely high heat and dry weather. If those traits are normal for the Sungold F1, will any of the OP attempts improve the fruit size and production while retaining the sweet flavor? The Sungold F1 fruit were so sweet, they reminded me more of a sweet berry than a tomato. I'm wondering if I really want a tomato that tastes like a sweet berry instead of a tomato. Ted

August 20, 2011	#27
fortyonenorth Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: NW Indiana Posts: 1,150	The size seems about right, but its yield has been quite excellent for me - on par or better than other cherries.

August 20, 2011	#28
kath Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: zone 6b, PA Posts: 5,664	Sungold F1 has always been a HUGE producer for me which is why I'm often disappointed with the yields of other cherries I trial in my search for an o.p. substitute. To me it has some zip along with its sweetness, and I don't think there's anything better for snacking right in the garden- I don't harvest them to bring into the house. The fact that it tastes more like a fruit than a tomato is what appeals to me and part of what makes it such a wonderful treat!

August 21, 2011	#29
Wi-sunflower Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 2,591	Sorry for being so long to answer your question Carolyn. Weekends are murder for me right now. We've had rainy Saturdays that have made it necessary to find a Sunday market to get rid of the produce we should have sold on Sat. I dug out my book and it seems I got the Sun Gold OP from Velikipop (sp?) as I have "Popovich" listed next to the seeding of the Sun Gold OP. I did post about getting all red fruit from the Big Sun Gold Select also but I don't think it was in your offer thread. I seem to remember there being another thread just about the Big Sun Gold Selects. i'm sure eventually there will be a good to great OP version of Sun Gold. It's just going to take longer than most of us thought because the original is so different and complex. It's one of my favs too because of the "fruity" flavor. BTW, at the market today I had 1 pint of "Dr Carolyn" at a new market for us. Someone asked about the name I had on that pint and I told her to "try one" She did and liked it enough she bought the pint. I like it too. We just don't have many plants in the field this year due to problems in the greenhouse this spring. Carol

August 21, 2011	#30
Ispahan Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Chicago Posts: 46	Why is Sungold seemingly so difficult to dehybridize? It seems like it should be able to be dehybridized just the same as any other F1, but most (maybe all?) of the progeny seem unusually unstable. Maybe the breeders used some sort of "weird science" to create this wonderful hybrid (i.e., colchicine treatment or radiation) and that has somehow led to genetic instability in subsequent generations. Or maybe they used Harry Potter's wand? :-) In any case, I will seek out Sungold Select II next season. I love the F1 and can't imagine any cherry tomato quite as unique and good.