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Old June 17, 2010   #16
amideutch
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In Exel LG and Agri Fos the primary ingredient is Phosphorous Acid. It is not the same as Phosphorus which is a macro fertilizer and what we refer to as "P" in N-P-K when talking Ferts.

A more detailed description;

Phosphorous Acid as Fertilizer?
Phosphorous acid does not get converted into phosphate, which is the primary source of P for plants. In contrast, some soil bacteria are capable of transforming phosphonate into phosphate. However, this process is so slow that it is of no practical relevance. To date, no plant enzymes have been described that could oxidize phosphonate into phosphate. This explains why phosphonate is stable in plants and does not get converted into phosphate. Since phosphorous acid and its derivatives do not get metabolized in plants, claims that phosphonate can contribute to phosphorus nutritional needs of the plants should be taken with caution.
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Old June 17, 2010   #17
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Ami, in reponse to what in particular is your last post... I'm not understanding the relevance to my previous post, if any was intended.
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Old June 17, 2010   #18
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Quote:
vigor inducing qualities of the phosphite
Timma, where is the phosphite comming from and how is it invigorating the plants. Ami
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Old June 17, 2010   #19
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per the manufacturer's website:

A systemic product, it has a foliar or root application that will work its way throughout the entire plant to prevent disease and attack existing disease above and below ground. Once inside the plant, Exel increases plant metabolism so plants grow faster, bloom more and have an increased yield. Excel is nutritional too, giving a boost of potassium and phosphorous, essential nutrients for plant growth.

    • Biostimulant
    • Preventative & Curative
    • Nutritional
Exel-lg's active ingredient =
Mono and Di Potassium Phosphite

I never claimed to believe it was a food source for the plant. As to the specifics of the particular mechanism of inducing vigor, you would have to ask the manufacturer.
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Old June 17, 2010   #20
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Upon further reading, apparently the Phosphite in Exel induces a Systemic Acquired Resistance response in the plant; the initiating mechanism being the acumulation of Salicylic Acid within the plant. Salicylic acid, & I quote here: "...has roles in plant growth and development, photosynthesis, transpiration, ion uptake and transport. SA also induces specific changes in leaf anatomy and chloroplast structure."

Hope this helps.

Last edited by Timmah!; June 18, 2010 at 12:49 AM. Reason: spelling
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Old June 18, 2010   #21
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According to this study, the increased salicylic concentration induced by the active ingredient in Exel also helps protect the plant during times of water stress by preseving nitrate reductase activity and high proline content. It also helps protect the cell's proteins, DNA & lipids from damage, resulting in increased plant height, shoot biomass, & root biomass:

http://www.scipub.org/fulltext/AJAB/AJAB43224-229.pdf

Aspirin's active ingredient is Salicylic Acid, so you could also crush an aspirin, mix it into a gallon of water & do a foliar application to produce the same effects.
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Old June 18, 2010   #22
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Quote:
Excel is nutritional too, giving a boost of potassium and phosphorous, essential nutrients for plant growth.
Timmah, this is what you posted. It's obvious the site is in error per the above statement. Phosphorous is not an essential nutrient. Phosphorus is but not Phosphorous. I liked your article on Salicylic Acid. Ami
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Old June 18, 2010   #23
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It's intersting what I learned from doing a little googling. What you're quoting above is not my original quote to which you responded with your explanatory post about the differences between phosphorous acid (phosphite) and phosphorus (phosphate). Again, I didn't post anything in my original question about believing that the phosphite fertilized as phosphorus does. It seems you misunderstood my calling it phosphite with phosphate. What I posed as my original question was: "All treatments increased yield significantly; wonder if that's because of reduced disease pressure alone or a combination of lack of disease & vigor inducing qualities of the phosphite." Which after reading, I found it does it's a combination of both. So after surmising that a foliar application of Salicylic acid using aspirin induces the SAR response, I wonder what results Exel or Agri-fos can achieve that the aspirin can't, because the aspirin's a helluva lot cheaper.

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Old June 18, 2010   #24
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Per the below information I believe Agri-Fos (phosphorous acid) does more than initiate a SAR response which is indicated in the last paragraph. Ami
Quote:
So after surmising that a foliar application of Salicylic acid using aspirin induces the SAR response, I wonder what results Exel or Agri-fos can achieve that the aspirin can't, because the aspirin's a helluva lot cheaper.
It is well documented that phosphorous acid is able to control diseases caused by organisms that belong to the Oomycota (or oomycetes) that are on agronomical crops.
For most practical purposes, the oomycetes are grouped with fungi. Compounds that control plant pathogens belonging to the oomycetes are often called fungicides. It is important to distinguish between fungi and oomycetes; chemicals that are used to control one will often not be effective against the other, depending on their different biology. Several important plant pathogens belong to the oomycetes; the one with the most economic impact is Phytophthora infestans, which causes late blight of potato.
Phosphorous acid has both a direct and an indirect effect on oomycetes. It inhibits a particular process (oxidative phosphorylation) in the metabolism of oomycetes. For instance, phosphonate compounds are ineffective against phosphonate-resistant oomycetes. In addition, some evidence suggests that phosphorous acid has an indirect effect by stimulating the plant’s natural defense response against pathogen attack.
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Old June 18, 2010   #25
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Great, it has an effect that aspirin doesn't in directly attacking certain pathogens; then I didn't waste $30 for the Exel. =)

"In addition, some evidence suggests that phosphorous acid has an indirect effect by stimulating the plant’s natural defense response against pathogen attack."

Right. That is what the application of aspirin (salicylic acid) will do also: it will elicit the SAR response in the plant more directly; as opposed to the more indirect response elicited by the application of the phosphite in Exel. I'm using the following 3 products on a 2 day rotation: Day 1 is Exel, Day 3 is Serenade, Day 5 is Actinovate, Day 7 is Exel again, Day 9 Serenade, Day 11 Actinovate...in combination with periodic soil drenches of Myco Grow. I was wondering if one could simply replace the Exel with crushed aspirin in combination with the other two I'm using; since the only thing Exel does that aspirin doesn't is control the late blight. However, since I've already spent the $30 on the Exel, I won't be testing that possiblity this season. =D
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Old June 19, 2010   #26
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Timmah, periodic drenches of Myco Grow won't hurt but aren't needed. One innoculation should be sufficient. Unless you have been getting a lot of rain you can decrease the frequency of applications of the above mentioned products to 3-5 days. EXEL controls more pathogens than just LB. How many plants are you growing? Ami
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Old June 19, 2010   #27
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I can decrease the frequency of treatments, but in light of late blight already being confirmed here in Kentucky, I'm erring on the side of an abundance of caution in hopes of preventing it from establishing in my garden. I only 40 plants, 16 of which are awaiting planting while I clear and prepare the adjacent field. The other 15-20 are in smaller pots. The Manyel & Black from Tula are beasts, throwing out new vegetation at a faster rate than any of the other varieties I'm growing CP isn't far behind.
The heat doesn't seem to bother them as much, I suppose.
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