Favorite brandywine?

[yotetrapper]

I have several varieties of this, an am never opposed to buying or trading for others I dont have, but I can only grow one brandywine this year, so which strain of it should it be? Which are your favorites, and why?

[camochef]

Not looking to be accused of whipping a dead horse, but...I cannot let a post such as this about Brandywine slip by without commenting, even though most know my answer before I give it.
The best brandywine as far as production would be Cowlick's Brandywine and there are a lot of people out there now that have grown it the past few years that would agree strongly.
It also tastes better than other Brandywines, but I don't know if I'd get as many agreeing with that statement but the number would be pretty high.
Glick's Brandywine would be a good second taste-wise, but falls behind drasticly in production and Sudduth's is even less productive, at least for me the past few years.
If looking for a tasty tomato that is similar but doesn't have anything to do with being a Brandywine other than having similar traits, try Sandul Moldovan.
Good Luck with whatever one(s) you decide to go with!
Camo

[ruet]

Out of curiousity, how does Cowlick's fare in high heat and low humidity? Do you have any reports from desert growers with regard to productivity?

I ask because I have some Cowlick's seeds and very limited growing space. I recently read that Brandywines in general did not cope well with high heat, but I'm wondering if Cowlick's might be an exception since so many people seem to sing its praises.

[carolyn137]

I think the larger question to be asked is.......what is a strain.

One view, which I agree with, is that it's a variant of a known variety that differs in subtle ways yet can still be IDed as the original variety. Examples might include:

Mortgage Lifter, Mullens strain, b'c it's the same as the original, except has pale leaves. And there's even a problem there b'c the original could mean the Radiator Charlie one or Estler's ML which they claim was developed before Charlies Byles one was and actually I prefer the Estler one.

Yellow Brandywine, Platfoot strain, b'c for most folks it has a higher yield and the fruits are much smoother.

Golden Queen (USDA) b'c it has the yellow blush at the blossom end that was originally described by Livingston whereas most seeds for GQ do not have that blush.

Then there are strains that some ID as strains b'c they have a person's name attached to them, and now talking just Bradywines such as Glick's, Pawers, Joyce's , Liam's, Sudduth/Quisenberry, and when I joined SSE back in 1989 there were even more such strains listed in the YEarbook.

Pawer's for instance, isn't a strain. It's a typo. it's a Brandywine that was listed by Roger Wentling of PA, so his SSE code is PA W RO, which became a strain, Pawer, that neve did exist.

Chuck Wyatt selected for earliness from the Sudduth strain and named it Joyce's for his wife, but folks who have grown it haven't seen that it's any earlier than any other strain.

Several SSE members have grown out ALL of the known strains in one season so as to eliminate the variables and have seen little to no difference in the strains IDed by a person's name, with I think the exception of the Sudduth/Quisenberry strain which many find to give much smoother fruits, higher yields and excellent taste.

Another problem is that most commercial seed sellers have no idea what strain they might be selling, and if no strain name is attached it means they don't know. In the SSE YEarbook, listed under just BRandywine, there are Brandywines listed that could be Sudduth, could be this or that, but totally unknown.

Linda at TGS went out a got the Sudduth strain, Glenn at Sandhill always had it, and others are now listing it as well.

I first started growing Brandywine back in the late 80's and having heard that it was THE best tasting variety, I had expectations that quite frankly weren't met. I grew several strains and most gave me low yields and misshapen fruits. It wasn't until my best tomato friend Craig LeHoullier sent me the Sudduth strain that I stepped down from being the unofficial Prez of the anti-Brandywine club of the USA.

Craig has also written an excellent over view of Brandywine as well as Yellow and Red Brandywines, and none of them are related as far as we know, I mean genetically, and that article for those interested can be found at Victory Seeds online. Also included are some of the varieties with Brandywine part of the name that arose by chance crosses such as OTV Brandywine, Black Brandywine, etc., which I helped out with. And of course none of those are strains of Brandywine.

So, now speaking of just Brandywine, the pink one and since it's pink it's redundant to call it Pink Brandywine, I think the best strain is the Sudduth/Quisenberry one of those that I've grown to date. I haven't grown Camo's Cowlick one yet, he offered me seeds, but these days I try to grow varieties new to almost everyone since I can grow so few being in this walker after a fall, so all my gardening is done by someone else. But Camo, if my 30 maximum limit on new ones isn't filled for 2010 and you still have a few seeds left I might be able to grow it. I know that Carol is distributing seed but it would be nice to have them from you.

Do I think the taste of Brandywine is unique? Yes I do but it's not the only variety I find to have a unique taste. I find the variety Prue also has a unique taste for me as well.

No doubt this post is too long but I thought it was important to point out that others have grown out the several strains of Brandywine and found little difference between them, that many prefer the Sudduth strain, but that if one grows a variety just sold as Brandywine it could be anything.

Look, if I were talking about the history of the various Brandywines here it would be a much longer post, but I'm not and if you're interested do go to Victory Seeds and read the article that Craig wrote.

There's also a thread here at Tville in the legacy Forum and we had quite a surprise when Ben Quisenberry's grandson showed up and helped distinguish Big Ben from Brandywine, so that thread may be of interest to those looking for some history.

Hope that helps.

[camochef]

Originally Posted by ruet

Out of curiousity, how does Cowlick's fare in high heat and low humidity? Do you have any reports from desert growers with regard to productivity?

I ask because I have some Cowlick's seeds and very limited growing space. I recently read that Brandywines in general did not cope well with high heat, but I'm wondering if Cowlick's might be an exception since so many people seem to sing its praises.

Ruet,
I don't think I have any reports from high heat, low humidity areas. Many have faired very well in high heat areas along the gulf coast, but they are anything but low humidity. Many of them claimed they couldn't grow Brandywines in their areas, and now are quite pleased with their results with Cowlick's.
Seeing you already have seed, try a few and see how they do. If I had seed for a tomato that so many claim to have success with, you couldn't stop me from trying at least a plant or two. Who knows, you might be pleasantly surprised, if not you haven't lost much.
Good luck with those that you do plant!
Camo

[camochef]

Carolyn,
I've already distributed all of this years seeds, but... I still have a few older cowlick seeds left from the original plants fruits. If you'd like to try a few send me an e-mail with your address and I'll get them to you. Hopefully, it will be a better season than last year.
Camo

[camochef]

mensplace,
Sorry to hear that you had such bad experiences with Brandywines. I too, am in my sixties and grew up in North Jersey, which was known back then for its tomatoes and truck gardens. I would buy an entire bushel basket of Jersey Beefsteak tomatoes for $1.00 including the basket and spend hours sitting with my salt shaker, eating tomato after tomato. Usually till I began to get sores in my mouth from the acidity.
Tomatoes have changed a great deal since then, or perhaps it's the soil since I left that area years ago. But I find Brandywines, at least pink Brandywines to be among the best tomatoes to grow. I love their thin skin, the tasty dense meat and the fact that there is very little core. They may not have that old Jersey Beefsteak bite to them, but I don't think many tomatoes do anymore.
There can also be quite a difference in the same tomato year to year, even when grown in the same locale, as weather conditions can make such an extreme difference. This past year was a perfect example. All my earlier planted "favorites" this year, were bland and watery due to excessive rain and cold temps on a whole.
My Dr. Wyches Yellow, which I've found to have more bite than any other tomato I've grown, was just plain, Yuck! to quote your description. Then too, some tomatoes don't do well in more exotic locations. I know all the seed I sent to tropical grower in the Phillipines, faired poorly, but he wanted to try different varieties and I did my best to supply him with what I could. Of course a number of typhons, didn't help his cause much either, but we cannot blame the tomatoes.
Some areas have had trace minerals all but eradicated from their soil over the years, makes them well suited for growing say vidalia onions, but might not do well for tomatoes or corn or...
Personally, I only grow heirlooms, I've had very poor crops with hybrids over the years, and find brandywines, as well as other heirlooms to do much better in this location, but then I'm also close to where many of these tomatoes got their start.
I can only wish you better luck in the future, and hope you find some that do well in your area. Also, those you grow yourself should always do better than those you buy elsewhere as you can control their envirorment more and therefore effect their taste.
Best wishes for the season ahead!
Camo

[mensplace]

Originally Posted by camochef

mensplace,
Sorry to hear that you had such bad experiences with Brandywines. I too, am in my sixties and grew up in North Jersey, which was known back then for its tomatoes and truck gardens. I would buy an entire bushel basket of Jersey Beefsteak tomatoes for $1.00 including the basket and spend hours sitting with my salt shaker, eating tomato after tomato. Usually till I began to get sores in my mouth from the acidity.
Tomatoes have changed a great deal since then, or perhaps it's the soil since I left that area years ago. But I find Brandywines, at least pink Brandywines to be among the best tomatoes to grow. I love their thin skin, the tasty dense meat and the fact that there is very little core. They may not have that old Jersey Beefsteak bite to them, but I don't think many tomatoes do anymore.
There can also be quite a difference in the same tomato year to year, even when grown in the same locale, as weather conditions can make such an extreme difference. This past year was a perfect example. All my earlier planted "favorites" this year, were bland and watery due to excessive rain and cold temps on a whole.
My Dr. Wyches Yellow, which I've found to have more bite than any other tomato I've grown, was just plain, Yuck! to quote your description. Then too, some tomatoes don't do well in more exotic locations. I know all the seed I sent to tropical grower in the Phillipines, faired poorly, but he wanted to try different varieties and I did my best to supply him with what I could. Of course a number of typhons, didn't help his cause much either, but we cannot blame the tomatoes.
Some areas have had trace minerals all but eradicated from their soil over the years, makes them well suited for growing say vidalia onions, but might not do well for tomatoes or corn or...
Personally, I only grow heirlooms, I've had very poor crops with hybrids over the years, and find brandywines, as well as other heirlooms to do much better in this location, but then I'm also close to where many of these tomatoes got their start.
I can only wish you better luck in the future, and hope you find some that do well in your area. Also, those you grow yourself should always do better than those you buy elsewhere as you can control their envirorment more and therefore effect their taste.
Best wishes for the season ahead!
Camo

Enjoyed your mention of the beefsteak. I had never even heard of it until my sister-in-law from Long Island told me about how delicious it is. That must be something like grits and fried livermush...it helps to have been raised on it. Here, I was raised on the high acid, intense flavor, & natural saltiness of others with an even distribution of seed and flesh. Just can't get used to those with very little seed and juice...almost all flesh. Too, you were dead on about the soil depletion. Everywhere you look here you see the same weeds that grow in very heavy, water retaining clay...GREAT for pottery. Hundreds of years of cultivation followed with heavy ammonium nitrate didn't help. This year I have already begun the process of change, i.e., adding a wide range of innoculants and micro-organisms, worms, and also a range of organic and mineral nutrients. I will till again, but will add copious amounts of GOOD compost into the tilling. Then I will add a thick layer of compost, carbon, and humus as a foot thick blanket across the top. The compost is already developing in a forty foot long windrow awaiting the drying of the soil in the spring. Meanwhile letting the special spots for tomatoes perk with gypsum, calcium carbonate, the minerals, and humate rich materials. NOW if I can address that 100 degree heat and 90+ percent humidity which seems to beg viruses, etc.. From what you said, your favorite Brandywine is up to the challenge based on your experience with it in the Gulf states!

[mensplace]

I remember well the time quite a few years ago when I first actually saw a Brandywine at a small farmers market. My great anticipation upon picking it up was that I was in for a real treat, as this was, from all I had read, supposed to be THE tomato that would take us back to years of long ago back in the early to mid-sixties.

Even back then, tomato fanciers were a unique breed. I was first introduced to them when I worked at one of Atlanta's most successful family nurseries. I digress. In those days times were a changin and the tomato fanciers were split between those older folks who worshiped names like Rutgers and the somewhat younger generation of those who loved the new kid on the block, the Big Boy. I'm almost sixty now, but I relished many a great tomato sandwich with rich acid bite that was the perfect contrast to Hellmans mayo. Times were simpler then.

I studied that Brandywine, bought it, took it home, cut into it and took my first bite. Like much that has changed since the mid sixties, this new tomato being the example of the most delicious tomato in America left me wondering...."This is it?" YUCK! But, some years later I found some seed for a Brandywine and planted it. After some struggle, I got these "heirlooms" going and actually got a few fruit, but mostly blights that withered the vines to all manner of yellows and dead browns. For many years thereafter, I swore off heirlooms as a class with my notions, reaffirmed by occasional sample of odd yellow and striped fruits and there it was again..that same mealy, sweet, bland, oddly shaped fruit that ever entrenched my prejudices.

This year, my efforts supported by several of you wonderful folks, I will try again. Perhaps by now "old time flavor" has actually become something other than a marketing term...rather like "organic"!

[b54red]

Originally Posted by mensplace

I remember well the time quite a few years ago when I first actually saw a Brandywine at a small farmers market. My great anticipation upon picking it up was that I was in for a real treat, as this was, from all I had read, supposed to be THE tomato that would take us back to years of long ago back in the early to mid-sixties.

Even back then, tomato fanciers were a unique breed. I was first introduced to them when I worked at one of Atlanta's most successful family nurseries. I digress. In those days times were a changin and the tomato fanciers were split between those older folks who worshiped names like Rutgers and the somewhat younger generation of those who loved the new kid on the block, the Big Boy. I'm almost sixty now, but I relished many a great tomato sandwich with rich acid bite that was the perfect contrast to Hellmans mayo. Times were simpler then.

I studied that Brandywine, bought it, took it home, cut into it and took my first bite. Like much that has changed since the mid sixties, this new tomato being the example of the most delicious tomato in America left me wondering...."This is it?" YUCK! But, some years later I found some seed for a Brandywine and planted it. After some struggle, I got these "heirlooms" going and actually got a few fruit, but mostly blights that withered the vines to all manner of yellows and dead browns. For many years thereafter, I swore off heirlooms as a class with my notions, reaffirmed by occasional sample of odd yellow and striped fruits and there it was again..that same mealy, sweet, bland, oddly shaped fruit that ever entrenched my prejudices.

This year, my efforts supported by several of you wonderful folks, I will try again. Perhaps by now "old time flavor" has actually become something other than a marketing term...rather like "organic"!

I have had similar poor results with the Brandywine varieties over the years. Starting seed, setting out, tying up, watering, and spraying, only to have them die from one disease or another before producing any edible fruit. This changed when I was able to get two fruit from Brandy Boy two years ago followed by around a dozen from two good plants last year. The flavor was phenomenal. The seed is an exclusive hybrid of Burpees and if they are not sold out, I highly recommend you try them. You should probably plant several in different places in your garden and at different times. Try to get a couple in really early and then a couple more a few weeks later. That way you will usually get one or two that do okay and if you get more than that, consider yourself lucky. I have never been able to keep one alive past mid July but that is usually long enough to give me some great tomatoes. Brandy Boy is so good it will have a place in my garden every year from now on. I am going to try Cowlick's this year with high hopes. I would love to find a OP version that can survive our heat and humidity with it's accompanying diseases and pests.

[yotetrapper]

Wow thanks for all the answers. Sounds like I might have to try and sneak 2 brandywines in, lol. I have cowlick on the way from a generous offer here, and after Carolyn's post I'm wanting to try the sudduth too.

[ruet]

Thanks for the history lesson Carolyn! Given everything I've learned from you I daresay you should really write a book!


Camo, I am definitely going to plant at least 2 Cowlick's next year, the only question I am facing at this point is — do I use my limited free space for more? Trying to figure that out by learning as much as I can about the varieties I've chosen for next year.

I haven't been able to find any info on Cowlick's heat-set: if it totally shuts down in high heat I'll keep it at 2 plants and see how it goes.

[RJW]

Ruet,

I have Cowlick's seedlings growing in mid December that will mature through late March in a hoophouse before being introduced to extremely dry conditions for the remainder of Spring and soaring heat come July. My hope is the early start gets me some production in May and June when it routinely goes over 100, but also cools off at night to tomato friendly temps. So, I need fruit setting in late April and early May... somehow.

So my desert report with this approach on Cowlick's, OTV, Lucky Cross, Pink, Red, and Sudduth Brandywines will be fairly early next season. I couldn't think of a better approach to trying these here. I'm keeping my fingers crossed and growing a couple Brandy Boys just in case.

Even as seedlings BWs are big babies compared to the rest of my starts. My expectations are low, but we'll see.

Madrid is lovely in comparison though.

[beefyboy]

I am surprised to hear the poor results for Dr. Wyches. I live in South Florida and on the Gulf side near Ft. Myers, in Pt. Charlotte. Every write up I read in catalogs states that Dr. Wyches is supposed to taste fruity and somewhat tropical and that is why I purchased seed, so I am baffled when I read people are expecting a bite out of it!. Frankly, here it always tastes fruity and mildly sweet which I like very much. I will be posting my own top twenty in the spring for it might help Florida residents who have not grown many varieties. Now thanks to Camo I have a desire to try Dana's Dusky Rose but cannot find seed to start it. As far as brandywines in my hot humid area, the brandywine OTV does very well and I grow it in my first planting in Oct. here along with my Oxhearts. Second planting it still does ok but not as well. Wapsipinicon peach does well any time I plant it along with J.D special. I like to thank Dr. Carolyn for giving us that special varriety for it has such a special flavor and never has let me down. I have now grown over 200 varieties in Florida since 1991 and am always searching for the perfect tomato like everyone else. In Florida it is hard to get the great flavors out compared to up North when I lived in Illinois. Here in Florida we get sick of Jersey people taling about that Jersey tomato and how unbeatable they are!!! lol

[camochef]

Beefyboy,

That Jersey tomato (beefsteak) was probably the reason Jersey was nicknamed the Garden State!