Calcium Nitrate to Fight BER?? - Page 2

rnewste · May 18, 2010

Ami,

I bought a 5 pound bag of Calcium Nitrate on Ebay today, so I'll give it a go in the Goose Creek 'Tainers as soon as it arrives. I'll only use it in the 3 G.C. 'Tainers as G.C. exhibited the greatest tendency to have BER last Season. Stay tuned for the results later this Summer.......

Raybo

amideutch · May 18, 2010

Raybo, sounds like a plan. Ami

Dewayne, there are several Calcium supplements available and I don't see why the GtoTec product should'nt work. Calcium Nitrate is cheaper and just as effective. And using 1 tablespoon per gallon I don't think the nitrogen will be an issue. You want to stay away from Nitrogen that is ammonium based as the article I posted suggested. Ami

geeboss · May 18, 2010

Here is VA, I'm trying this year Foli-Cal which is Calcuim Acetate added to water and sprayed on leaves and fruit. Will follow up once I have more plants with fruit growing. Last year some of my paste maters and a few Beefsteaks started the season with BER however as it progressed the BER went away.` Currently some Dwarfs and Sophie's Choice have set fruit and are BER free.

George

Dewayne mater · May 18, 2010

This morning I refilled my earthtainers and I added at a rate of 2 tsp per gallon the Botanicare's Cal-Mag Plus. The guys at one of the local hydroponic stores had at least 3 calcium liquid supplement options, and after discussion, I decided on this one primarily because of the options available, it had the lowest nitrogren content and I don't think lack of nitrogen is my issue at all. The guys at this store were pretty knowlegeable about ferilization, fertigation, etc. [when they could remember ;-)] Oh, he suggested a liquid fertizilizer be added to the water every other time. That brings me to the next issue, what is the frequency on these products? Till BER disappears? Do you think the 2 tsp per gallon rate is high enough on the calcium to work? Thanks.

mgk65 · May 18, 2010

Hi folks.

I found Calcium nitrate at the farm store, Southern States. I would guess that most any farm store carries it.

A 25 lb bag was around $19.

Timmah! · May 18, 2010

The idea of foliar application of the calcium source is to alleviate H20 transpiration stress & make calcium immediately available to the leaves; helping to free up the calcium coming via the roots for the fruit.
In the first paragraph of the article, he states that the deficiency occurs even as there is a sufficient source in the soil or growing media & high concentrations in the plant. Just adding more calcium isn't gonna help & nowhere in there does he assert that. It's a transpiration & rapid vegetative growth problem.

amideutch · May 18, 2010

Here's more links on BER. Ami

http://farmerfredrant.blogspot.com/2...-tomatoes.html

http://www.coopext.colostate.edu/TRA...blendrot.shtml

Timmah! · May 18, 2010

It would seem, barring inadequate substrate calcium levels, that this is a moisture issue. The argument they're making is: Since calcium applied to the leaves doesn't migrate to the fruit, it won't help. They're not expounding any further on that point. What I'm saying is: Perhaps making calcium & water available to the leaves via foliar spray will free up, for the fruit, calcium & water coming via the roots that would otherwise be headed for the leaves. If there is adequate calcium in the substrate & the issue is moisture levels, then apparently adding calcium to the substate isn't the anwer. If there is adequate moisture levels & substrate calcium levels & the issue is rapid vegetative growth & foliar transpiration, perhaps foliar application would help. That & cutting down on N levels & mulching.

amideutch · May 19, 2010

I have done a little more research on the foliar application issues. Some studies have indicated that foliar applications of Calcium do help. Problem is there are so many varibles that can cause BER it is hard to pin point the cause in each individual case.
My theory is to make sure everything is in order below ground before you go above ground to apply your curatives. Yes I can see where a foliar application might temporarily stop the perspiration of the leaves but a short time later after the leaves have dried the process starts again. If you wish to apply a foliar as a preventive do so as it won't hurt the plant. The best time to apply the foliar from what I've read is at the beginning of fruit set.
Right now I'm looking into the role that Mycorrhiza and Bacteria play if any in the plants uptake of Calcium. We know they increase Phosphorous and Nitrogen uptake as well as micro's but not much info on Calcium. Ami

Dewayne mater · May 19, 2010

Ami: your researched contributions are, as always, greatly appreciated! If you should come across anything that discusses the amount of calcium needed to help with container BER or even what is an appropriate range, I'd love to hear it. Raybo points out that calcium nitrate is 19% calcium and the liquid product I found recommends a 'fix a problem' level of 6.5% calcium (3.25% for regular application). However, it is being delivered with a different mineral composition than calcium nitrate, which could make a difference I suppose. That is a quite a big range 6.5%-19%. I don't want to burn my roots or throw off the chemical balance, but, I'd rather not lose any more fruit to BER. Right now, plants are still setting but soon enough it gets too hot in N. Tx. and I'll have what I have, so, "every fruit is sacred." (to the tune of every sperm is sacred).

amideutch · May 19, 2010

Dewayne, one tablespoon calcium nitrate per gallon of water per plant is what I came up with as the application rate for a soil drench. Ami

rnewste · May 19, 2010

Dewayne,

I may be stating the obvious, but I intend to pour about a half-gallon dilution of the Mix (1/2 TBSP) directly down into the water reservoir via the filler tube - - rather than doing a half-gallon soil drench. This should "shock" the plants less than a direct application.

Raybo

Dewayne mater · May 19, 2010

Ray: I'm doing something similar, but putting it in a hose end sprayer at the suggested rate and spraying straight into the fill tube. Since I don't know the number of gallons needed, this seemed to be the best way to get the right ratio.

That said, do you know the composition of your calcium nitrate? I.E. Ami finds that 1 tbs per gallon is the proper application rate, but I'm using a different calcium product and need to translate that in to PPM or at least into percentage of calcium. Seems like I saw somewhere you said Calcium Nitrate was 19% calcium, but I can't find that for some reason.
If so, given that my product (above) is 3.2% calcium at 1 tsp per gallon , I'll obviously need a lot higher rate per gallon to get to the equivalent of 1 tbs per gallon of a 19% calcium product. (algebra to be done later...And my friends said we wouldn't need algebra in the real world! :-) )

Actually, doing the math, I think at the rate I applied, 2 tsp per gallon, that put about 19.2% calcium into the water. The label above says 1 tsp per gallon is 3.2% calcium, 3 tsp = 1 TBS, so 3x2x3.2= 19.2%. at least as far as my math atrophied brain can calculate!

rnewste · May 19, 2010

Dewayne,

Actually, when you put it into the EarthTainer's water reservoir, you are "diluting" it based on the water resident there already. My guess is that there is 4 gallons of water there already, so adding in your "snack" will be diluted accordingly. The key thing is to not overdo it I suppose, and a steady feeding of the Calcium Nitrate will be better over the long term.

Raybo

Dewayne mater · May 27, 2010

I've been using the calmag plus product outlined above at a 2 tsp per gallon rate, which I believe is about 19% calcium, on each fill up of my tainers. It has been hot and fill ups are every other day. I let them get to the 3rd full day once and one of them was out of water and plants drooping. (fill up and top watering and the plants sprung back to life ain a few hours and look great) Unfortunately, I'm still seeing BER. I've pulled at least 2 dozen fruit with probably 18-20 being Stupice, 6 being Goose Creek and this morning I actualy had 2 black cherry toms with BER. Completely unaffected so far are Indian Stripe and Black and Brown Boar. I think the number of newly affected fruit may be fewer, but it is difficult to say for sure.

I'm very concerned, but this seems to be best hope for addressing this issue, so I will continue on this path. If anyone has other ideas, I'm very interested in hearing from you.

So you'll know, the plants are all vigorously growing. Black cherry is poking out of the top of the extension cage with 2 or 3 stems. Others are growing at their own rate, but all are large, full plants and all have varying numbers of fruit set. Stupice is one plant and in spite of pulling 18-20, it probably has twice that many on it now and continues to set. The larger varieties aren't nearly that heavily set, of course. So, is it possible rapid growth and fruit set has outstripped the slow release fertilizer in the tainers? I'm considering going to a mix of liquid calcuim and a liquid tomato specific fertilizer from botanicare on every feeding, but only because what I'm doing isn't stopping the problem. Thanks for you input.

May 18, 2010	#17
amideutch Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Germany 49°26"N 07°36"E Posts: 5,041	Raybo, sounds like a plan. Ami Dewayne, there are several Calcium supplements available and I don't see why the GtoTec product should'nt work. Calcium Nitrate is cheaper and just as effective. And using 1 tablespoon per gallon I don't think the nitrogen will be an issue. You want to stay away from Nitrogen that is ammonium based as the article I posted suggested. Ami __________________ Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting ‘...Holy Crap .....What a ride!'

May 18, 2010	#22
amideutch Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Germany 49°26"N 07°36"E Posts: 5,041	Here's more links on BER. Ami http://farmerfredrant.blogspot.com/2...-tomatoes.html http://www.coopext.colostate.edu/TRA...blendrot.shtml __________________ Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting ‘...Holy Crap .....What a ride!' Last edited by amideutch; May 18, 2010 at 01:13 PM.

May 19, 2010	#24
amideutch Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Germany 49°26"N 07°36"E Posts: 5,041	I have done a little more research on the foliar application issues. Some studies have indicated that foliar applications of Calcium do help. Problem is there are so many varibles that can cause BER it is hard to pin point the cause in each individual case. My theory is to make sure everything is in order below ground before you go above ground to apply your curatives. Yes I can see where a foliar application might temporarily stop the perspiration of the leaves but a short time later after the leaves have dried the process starts again. If you wish to apply a foliar as a preventive do so as it won't hurt the plant. The best time to apply the foliar from what I've read is at the beginning of fruit set. Right now I'm looking into the role that Mycorrhiza and Bacteria play if any in the plants uptake of Calcium. We know they increase Phosphorous and Nitrogen uptake as well as micro's but not much info on Calcium. Ami __________________ Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting ‘...Holy Crap .....What a ride!'

May 19, 2010	#26
amideutch Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Germany 49°26"N 07°36"E Posts: 5,041	Dewayne, one tablespoon calcium nitrate per gallon of water per plant is what I came up with as the application rate for a soil drench. Ami __________________ Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting ‘...Holy Crap .....What a ride!' Last edited by amideutch; May 19, 2010 at 02:08 PM.

May 19, 2010	#28
Dewayne mater Tomatovillian™ Join Date: May 2008 Location: DFW, Texas Posts: 1,212	Ray: I'm doing something similar, but putting it in a hose end sprayer at the suggested rate and spraying straight into the fill tube. Since I don't know the number of gallons needed, this seemed to be the best way to get the right ratio. That said, do you know the composition of your calcium nitrate? I.E. Ami finds that 1 tbs per gallon is the proper application rate, but I'm using a different calcium product and need to translate that in to PPM or at least into percentage of calcium. Seems like I saw somewhere you said Calcium Nitrate was 19% calcium, but I can't find that for some reason. If so, given that my product (above) is 3.2% calcium at 1 tsp per gallon , I'll obviously need a lot higher rate per gallon to get to the equivalent of 1 tbs per gallon of a 19% calcium product. (algebra to be done later...And my friends said we wouldn't need algebra in the real world! :-) ) Actually, doing the math, I think at the rate I applied, 2 tsp per gallon, that put about 19.2% calcium into the water. The label above says 1 tsp per gallon is 3.2% calcium, 3 tsp = 1 TBS, so 3x2x3.2= 19.2%. at least as far as my math atrophied brain can calculate! Last edited by Dewayne mater; May 19, 2010 at 02:38 PM. Reason: Do the math

May 18, 2010	#16
rnewste Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Campbell, CA Posts: 4,064	Ami, I bought a 5 pound bag of Calcium Nitrate on Ebay today, so I'll give it a go in the Goose Creek 'Tainers as soon as it arrives. I'll only use it in the 3 G.C. 'Tainers as G.C. exhibited the greatest tendency to have BER last Season. Stay tuned for the results later this Summer....... Raybo

May 18, 2010	#18
geeboss Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Fairfax, VA Z7 Posts: 524	Here is VA, I'm trying this year Foli-Cal which is Calcuim Acetate added to water and sprayed on leaves and fruit. Will follow up once I have more plants with fruit growing. Last year some of my paste maters and a few Beefsteaks started the season with BER however as it progressed the BER went away.` Currently some Dwarfs and Sophie's Choice have set fruit and are BER free. George

May 18, 2010	#20
mgk65 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: WV, Z6 Posts: 16	Hi folks. I found Calcium nitrate at the farm store, Southern States. I would guess that most any farm store carries it. A 25 lb bag was around $19.

May 18, 2010	#21
Timmah! Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Elizabethtown, Kentucky 6a Posts: 754	The idea of foliar application of the calcium source is to alleviate H20 transpiration stress & make calcium immediately available to the leaves; helping to free up the calcium coming via the roots for the fruit. In the first paragraph of the article, he states that the deficiency occurs even as there is a sufficient source in the soil or growing media & high concentrations in the plant. Just adding more calcium isn't gonna help & nowhere in there does he assert that. It's a transpiration & rapid vegetative growth problem.

May 27, 2010	#30
Dewayne mater Tomatovillian™ Join Date: May 2008 Location: DFW, Texas Posts: 1,212	I've been using the calmag plus product outlined above at a 2 tsp per gallon rate, which I believe is about 19% calcium, on each fill up of my tainers. It has been hot and fill ups are every other day. I let them get to the 3rd full day once and one of them was out of water and plants drooping. (fill up and top watering and the plants sprung back to life ain a few hours and look great) Unfortunately, I'm still seeing BER. I've pulled at least 2 dozen fruit with probably 18-20 being Stupice, 6 being Goose Creek and this morning I actualy had 2 black cherry toms with BER. Completely unaffected so far are Indian Stripe and Black and Brown Boar. I think the number of newly affected fruit may be fewer, but it is difficult to say for sure. I'm very concerned, but this seems to be best hope for addressing this issue, so I will continue on this path. If anyone has other ideas, I'm very interested in hearing from you. So you'll know, the plants are all vigorously growing. Black cherry is poking out of the top of the extension cage with 2 or 3 stems. Others are growing at their own rate, but all are large, full plants and all have varying numbers of fruit set. Stupice is one plant and in spite of pulling 18-20, it probably has twice that many on it now and continues to set. The larger varieties aren't nearly that heavily set, of course. So, is it possible rapid growth and fruit set has outstripped the slow release fertilizer in the tainers? I'm considering going to a mix of liquid calcuim and a liquid tomato specific fertilizer from botanicare on every feeding, but only because what I'm doing isn't stopping the problem. Thanks for you input.