Curious as to what is going on with mailed seeds

[nctomatoman]

I don't know what to say about the potential meaning of this, but it is interesting - I am getting pretty much 80-100% germination on my saved seed, looking at over 100 varieties.

However, seeds through the mail are showing surprising variability. Fresh World Beater pepper seed from Southern Exposure failing to germinate. Fresh Thai Dragon at 20%. Earl's Faux from Earl at 40%, from Fusion at 0% (and he got good germination on the same lot). I send Brad Green Giant - he gets less than 10% germ; I get 98% (as does Fusion) on the same seed. Patrina sends me 8 F1 Dwarfs - my germination is approaching 100%. I send the seeds to others, and some are getting nothing.

I don't know what is going on, if anything; clearly, germination technique is a significant variable - but the above types of data indicate that perhaps something is going on intermittently with seed sent through the mail. When I use a particular technique on a flat of 50 varieties, and Fusion's Earl's Faux gives me nothing - yet he gets near 100% germination on the same seed - it is very curious.

Any thoughts?

[michael johnson]

Thats a very interesting observation- and if anything a very scientific approach to what appears to be an increasing problem. ( Well done Craig keep up the good work ).

That may well have been my problem this season, with some of the seeds through the mail- mainly from other countries .

Lets all take it a stage or two further and see if we cant all put our heads together a bit and come up with some method or other to address the situation.

Could it be packaging or the form of envelope they are sent in, all my better germination varieties came in bubble pack envelopes,
are they being subjected to hot dry conditions in transit.

would some form of foil packing protect them enough- like being wrapped in aluminum kitchen foil and folded over like a protective envelope.

Although Carolyn said not long ago that no irradiation methods were being used in most of the USA, I wonder if they pass through some form of other rays in the form of powerfull X -ray machines- that are partialy sterilising the seeds.

Its obvious something is causing it -but what ????.

I think Craig has realy hit the nail on the head this time and gotten to the main cause straight away, all it needs now is refining down to the actual culprit within .

[bcday]

Craig, this spring you sent me seeds of two varieties that you saved in 1995. I have 96% germination from one. The other one is currently at 71% but those were a little slower to start coming up so that number could go higher.

It would really be interesting if whatever is going on affects fresh seed differently from old seed.

[dokutaaguriin]

Hi Craig,
I am not sure if this thread is referring to that seed offer of yours from last year or not. I thinked I sowed every seed you sent me of SEKAI ICHI. Unfortunately, nothing has happened.
Jeff

[nctomatoman]

Jeff, that old seed was a very long shot - I got it in 1990 and who knows how old it was before it was sent to me.

The real point of this thread is the high variability people are seeing with fresh or relatively fresh seed, either from other seed savers or commercial sources - especially if their technique is sound (evidence being good results with seed they save themselves).

[jerseyjohn61]

Craig,
Irradiation of the mail began back in '02 in some
locations after the Anthrax attacks of '01.
High-end coin dealers and collectors
began complaining a few years back, when the
finishes of expensive professionally graded
coins were being damaged while passing
through postal system....JJ61

P.S. Just reread Michael's post, however there
still are irradiation operations taking place at
some major hubs.

[Sorellina]

Ciao Craig,

I don't have the same direct comparison data that you have because I'm not growing out the same seeds I've sent to others. However, I will say that of the 12 varieties that have yet to germinate at all for me, 11 are from trades. I knew I might have some difficulty with Anna Russian from Bully because it's 2003 seed, so I soaked it overnight with a couple drops of liquid seaweed, but the others I can't explain. The one oddball is Black From Tula which I got from Sandhill last year, so that one SHOULD pop any day now.

[melody]

I sent seeds to a SSE member in CO a couple years ago,and she had horrible germination on everything I sent. She's an accomplished seed saver, and long time SSE member, and I didn't doubt her methods at all. There were tomatoes and peppers in the bubble wrapped package, and I planted the same seeds that germinated fine for me.

I re-sent seeds from the same containers that I filled her first request from and these gave nearly 100% germination. The only thing that we could figure was that something happend to the seeds in transit.

The packaging wasn't wet or damaged, and we chalked it up to just one of those things...

I'm glad to know that I'm not alone in this.

[bully]

I have had similar occurrences.

I have seen a couple of threads at gweb about poor germination and I know I sent the seeds to a couple of the people that were having troubles.

One was Earls Faux and I thought, oh crap my bad maybe I fermented to long or made some other mistake.

But when I sowed them myself I had 100% germination.
This has happened on about 4 occasions with other varieties.

[nctomatoman]

Carolyn, what says you on this? Others?

We seem to have something going on. Does this call for some organized experiment - taking seeds we know germinate well, sending them out - then having them sent back to us for a test? I can't handle this right now...but could participate in it. What could we determine? We may pick up undesirable effects, but how to get to the root causes?

[cdntomato]

Only two notable constants for me:

anything coming out of California has low to no germination, no matter whether commercial or home saved seed;

anything going to Texas heads into the Bermuda Triangle of the US postal system. Repeat mailings are the norm.

Jennifer

[carolyn137]

Craig,

let me think about it a bit, and then get back and post, but I still go back to the fresh 2004 seeds I sent out to many folks and the variability in technique that had to be at work since most got 100% germination and yet there were those who got zero germination. Sigh.

Julianna, why oh why would you expect problems with 2003 Anna Russian seed? Why those are fresh seeds, by my standards, which means any seeds less than five years old with which I always get from 70-100 % germination.

So let me get back to this later, but I'm tending to not agree that it's a "mail" problem.

[PaulF]

Seeds mailed to me from the Mid-West and Mid-South (Sandhill, Baker Creek, Marianna's and relatively local SSE sources) had very good germination. For me that is 70-100%. Seeds from Johnny's and East Coast SSE sources were hit and miss. Some from Johnny's were 0% and some were 100%. From SSE sources were generally in the 10-20% germination range.

After re-reading this, what can I infer? Not much; I still think it was me and not the delivery distance, source or method. Since I had not given it much thought, it is a good thing to pay attention to.

[Tomstrees]

Craig,

You know that I agree (aka dwarf project!!) ;
But then again, the seeds I've mailed
everyone else have come up just fine ~

On a side note -
Seeds mailed to me from
Canada, have def. produced some
weird results/plants (weird mutations).
A 4-Cot for example ~ but otherwise 2 healthy
seedlings.

Yet, seed from Australia has been great ...
Interesting ~

Maybe some kind of "screening" / "scanning",
radiation type methods elsewhere ???

~ Tom

ps.
also, how could I have
germinated seed from Carolyn
from 1993 - but fresh seed (this year)
no germination ??

pss.
the seeds I traded for from TGS
all came up quick ... huh ...

[SelfSufficient1]

Let's see. I got seed from Baker Creek, Pinetree, Tanagers, all are coming up real well 90-100%. Traded seed did not do near as well but I basically think this was because we had a bit of cooler weather and the greenhouse did not stay as warm. Now that we are warming up again several are coming up late.