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Old February 2, 2013   #16
carolyn137
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Originally Posted by Tania View Post
I looked up the Russian tomato. It is called 'Amurskiy Tigr' ('Amur Tiger')

http://nikitovka.com/online-store/20...to-detail.html
Yes it is and since you apparently aren't reading at idig i did a post over there and noted that someone told me that Marina at The Depot said there was no Russian Siberian Tiger, gave the name as Amurskiy Tigr. I recognized the prefix Amur as being from a Siberian area. Googled it and yes it is Siberian Tiger, and recognizing that the folks at The Depot didn't possibly know that Steve W already had at his site the Russian one and Marina showed a commercial package, they will renaming what was called Siberian Tiger.

It was in this thread that Mark, who did the original cross, first became aware of the fact that there were two varieties called by the same name although the two were quite different as to size and striping.

So I think all is well now, the Russian one takes precedence and Mark says they will be renaming it but it isn't even stable yet and is one selection that Blane is working on and is really neat looking. And a picture is shown above from Mark's blog, the fruit on the left with those stripes. And I gave the Google link and more at idig.

http://www.google.com/#hl=en&tbo=d&s...pw.r_qf.&cad=b

Carolyn, who will also be e-mailing you Tania about some other stuff. I have a long list of things to do and am just so far behind that, well, I've got to go faster somehow. Now that the SSE 2013 paper Yearbook has arrived here, earliest in about 20 years, I've just got to get those seeds out before dealing with possible requests from the Yearbook.
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Old February 2, 2013   #17
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I will be growing out the Mark version this year. Hoping the long lateral stripes come back.

This one is a looker for sure.
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Old February 2, 2013   #18
Tania
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I still believe the Russian variety should go under its original name, Amurskiy Tigr.
Having a translation is great, but it should not become a 'new' name for a tomato that originated in another country.

I know Russian language is probably too intimidating, this is why many folks are trying so hard to get the names translated... I see much less of translations of French, Italian, or Chinese names. Why Russian are 'singled out'? LOL

But I believe that honoring the original names is the right thing to do, regardless of the country of origin.

The original names are part of tomato variety heritage, and they need to be preserved, along with their histories.

I am guessing once Mark's Siberian Tiger is stabilized, it will likely get a different name, but this is up to Mark to decide, as this is his 'baby' . This is a gorgeous tomato, and I hope it'll get stable sometime in the future!

EDITED TO ADD: Looking at various Russian seed catalogs, I was so frustrated to see so many different translations of many NA tomato varieties. Some of these I could not even recognize any more! Translated variety names are becoming a big problem in Russia - and there are many folks there who also think that if they received a variety from a trader in Sweden, it means that it is 'Swedish'. I saw my share of 'Swedish' Banana Legs and such. Very confusing for folks who are new to the tomato world!
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Old February 2, 2013   #19
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I saw my share of 'Swedish' Banana Legs and such.
Swedish banana legs! Did you take pics?
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Old February 2, 2013   #20
Tania
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Swedish banana legs! Did you take pics?
nope, my bad... In retrospect, I probably should have...
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Old February 2, 2013   #21
carolyn137
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tania View Post
I still believe the Russian variety should go under its original name, Amurskiy Tigr.
Having a translation is great, but it should not become a 'new' name for a tomato that originated in another country.

I know Russian language is probably too intimidating, this is why many folks are trying so hard to get the names translated... I see much less of translations of French, Italian, or Chinese names. Why Russian are 'singled out'? LOL

But I believe that honoring the original names is the right thing to do, regardless of the country of origin.

The original names are part of tomato variety heritage, and they need to be preserved, along with their histories.

I am guessing once Mark's Siberian Tiger is stabilized, it will likely get a different name, but this is up to Mark to decide, as this is his 'baby' . This is a gorgeous tomato, and I hope it'll get stable sometime in the future!
Tania, I thought I answered you above but perhaps you're suggesting that Steve should change the name of Siberian Tiger at his site to Amurskiy Tigr? I don't know how it was received by him originally, do you?

I will put Pervaya Lyubov ( First Love) when I SSE list it or when I listed it in my seed offer but when I flip through the pages of SSE YEarbooks I could see the same variety listed , separately as both First Love and also Pervaya Lyubov. No it hasn't happened with that one, but.....

It happens with many other varieties as well.

I don't know what the solution is really, except perhaps you might sometime ask Mischka if I'ts OK to make a sticky about it here, but then it's only those here at Tville who would know of your concern, which you've expressed here before, several times in just a general sense, not using a specific variety as you did above.

And many folks don't know what to do with a variety that comes to them in a foreign language.

You can't do it at all of the message sites or vendor sites that you know of and you can't do it as a request to Joanne at SSE which would increase her workload immensely trying to contact listers for more information, but there is ONE place where I think you should do it, and

.....that's at your own website which has wide distribution on the internet now .

Carolyn
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Old February 2, 2013   #22
Mischka
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Quote:
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I am guessing once Mark's Siberian Tiger is stabilized, it will likely get a different name, but this is up to Mark to decide, as this is his 'baby' . This is a gorgeous tomato, and I hope it'll get stable sometime in the future!
It's being sold now, under that name, with the implication that it's stable. Clearly this is a lie, based on what others have reported in this thread.
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Old February 2, 2013   #23
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It's being sold now, under that name, with the implication that it's stable. Clearly this is a lie, based on what others have reported in this thread.
Well, there's Mark's version as the caption reads and then there's Blane's version going after the one pictured in Mark's Blog.

Do I expect to see a change in name for this one after it's been listed? I doubt it.

But at 10 seeds for, what was it, $4.50?

I went through all of those 19 pages of new ones and I guess I missed that one if that's where it was. But all this business about Siberian Tiger I think came up before I ever knew there was a problem and after I'd scanned those pages.I'd have to check the dates, but it really doesn't matter, does it.

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Old February 2, 2013   #24
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There was a F2 plant from my cross BK x OSU Blue that had distinct anthocyanin rich lateral stripes (Fs not gs) on an orange fruit - it looked like a tiger, and was given the nickname Siberian Tiger. There were four people that grew out F3 progeny from this plant, and none of us perfectly captured the striking "tiger like" stripes present in the F2. Surprizingly Blane found a F4 plant that was even more striking than the F2 (this is the one Carolyn refers to on my blog). Last year I had several dozen plants from Blane's selection - but none captured the "tiger-like" phenotype. I'm still interested in and working with the line, but suspect now that the magic phenotype is strongly influenced by environment. I'll have several next generation plants at a couple locations next year.

In retrospect I reqret the nickname/working name for the cross (or crosses in general). It has definitely led to confusion here.
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Old February 2, 2013   #25
Fred Hempel
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A note: The "Siberian Tiger" at Mariannas was from a McCaslin/Artisan Seeds cross, but it is not an Artisan Seeds release, as might be assumed from the description at Mariannas. We can not take credit for the selection offered.
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Old February 2, 2013   #26
Tania
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Carolyn,

I am not suggesting anything - I was just stating my strong opinion about names and translations. And strong opinion it is! LOL.

Perhaps it sounded a bit too strong?

Oh... I did not know the unstable Siberian Tiger was offered by Marianna's... Wow.
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