ADVICE PLEASE

[forni4fun]

I am ready to mix my hard pan to hopefully have a good soil and need advice on my intended mixture. 2-5gal. buckets hard pan, 2-5gal. buckets potting soil, 1-5gal. gravel, 1-39 gallon bag about 1/4 full of horse crap, and 1-5gal. bucket coffee grounds. Please any thoughts about my mixture would be appreciated. And please also know that I am financially strained as it is. Thanks, Richard

[Redbaron]

Originally Posted by forni4fun

I am ready to mix my hard pan to hopefully have a good soil and need advice on my intended mixture. 2-5gal. buckets hard pan, 2-5gal. buckets potting soil, 1-5gal. gravel, 1-39 gallon bag about 1/4 full of horse crap, and 1-5gal. bucket coffee grounds. Please any thoughts about my mixture would be appreciated. And please also know that I am financially strained as it is. Thanks, Richard

Is this a normal bed? Raised bed? Container?

[forni4fun]

it will be a raised bed about 16'X5' and I will need to repea this mixture several times over until I obtain my raised bed. Richard

[rwsacto]

Hi,

My advice,

1. Leave out the gravel. It adds no value to a raised bed and will aggravate you for years to come.

2. You could add a third bucket of the clay hard pan to the mix. Note that the organics (potting soil, horse crap and coffee grounds) will slowly decompose and cause your bed to settle a few inches. You will have to replenish the organics every year.

3. Add one or two cups of gypsum (not lime) to the mix.

4. Start composting leaves, coffee grounds, manure and green clippings together now. Add to the top of the beds after 1-3 months.

PS: If you have not built your bed yet, consider a 4 ft width. 5 ft means a lot of leaning and stretching. Alternatively, consider stepping stomes or a 1 ft wide plank down the center to walk on.

Good Luck,
Rick

[bbjm]

I agree to leaving the gravel out. As a person that has dealt with gravel and rock mulch from previous owner, I can say that rock and gravel have no place in any garden. So difficult to work with! Let us know what you settle on and how it goes. I'm getting ready to have to come up with soil for several raised beds at my new location. I too want to do it cheaply with what I can find or get for free.

[bower]

Since you're on the coast, you should go down to the beach and get yourself some bags of kelp. You can chop up the fresh kelp and mix it into your soil, it will help water retention as well as being a nutrient source as it breaks down. You can add it to your compost, and make it hot and rich. You can even use it as mulch. You can powder it and make tea or tonic for stressed plants, doled out by the cupful.

Kelp is one of the best free garden resources you can get when you're near the ocean. I collect it year round - usually the day after some stormy weather and onshore winds, there's plenty to be found.

[forni4fun]

I will leave out the gravel and add 1 more bucket hard pan. So then 3-5gal. buckets hard pan, 2-5gal. buckets potting soil, 1/4 full 39gal. gabage bag horse crap, and 1-2 cups gypsym(if I can afford to get it) seem like a good recipe? and 1 or 2 cups gypsym? which is better 1 or 2 or how do I determine which to use? Also I am mixing now to fill the hole I have made. Will trhis mixture be broken down enough for this next planting season?

[rockhound]

Leave out gravel, only use composted horse crap.

[Redbaron]

It is really rare to need drainage in a raised bed. If you got the gravel because your hard pan is a problem you may not need it. Possibly as a bottom level well below grade. However I have a good use for your gravel. If it is pea gravel and you have drainage issues. You can dig a trench with pea gravel and solve some drainage problems.

Unfortunately it is not something that can be advised over the internet. You have to do a test and also understand the topography of your land.

If you feel this is the case, best I can say is think it through best you can, since it would be expensive to hire it out.

The rest of your materials are good for raised beds. But stay light on the hard pan clay. Too much clay mixed in and you will have a similar issue Scott from Atlanta had.

Remember all those other organic materials will settle and decompose a LOT LOT LOT but your hard pan clay is SOLID. So you may think you are 50/50 and really you are 95/5 and haven't solved a thing.

This is really important. Don't believe me ask Scott and his archaeological dig!

[dice]

You can get gypsum inexpensively in 40-50 lb bags. I was travelling
through the area around Red Bluff, Chico, etc one spring, and there
were flats of bags of it sitting around the garden departments of
hardware stores. (It's "the right stuff" to add calcium to clay soils
when you do not want to change the soil pH.)

If you don't find it at a reasonable price (under $10 for a big bag
that will last for years) at your nearest big box hardware store,
check around at True Value hardware stores, garden centers, etc.
The farther out in the country you can get, the better your chance
of finding it at a reasonable price.

[Cole_Robbie]

I'm guessing that the gravel was intended to be a soil lightener. You have the right idea, but there are better ones. Perlite is about $20 per cubic yard if you can find a big bag at a garden center. Vermiculite is about the same price. Gypsum breaks up clay, too, and is even cheaper. Plain old sand would be the poor man's option, but with enough compost and organic matter, you probably won't need a soil lightener anyway.

[habitat_gardener]

I don't know what the soils are like around Sacramento, but here in the SF bay area, gypsum is not recommended as a soil amendment. The only thing our soils need is nitrogen, which is easily provided with alfalfa pellets from pet stores.

The only thing useful for improving the structure of clay soils is organic matter and more organic matter. You can get bagsful of free coffee grounds at Starbucks, but they need to be well mixed with other stuff (and the chunks broken up) rather than added as a discrete layer.

[rwsacto]

Originally Posted by forni4fun

I will leave out the gravel and add 1 more bucket hard pan. So then 3-5gal. buckets hard pan, 2-5gal. buckets potting soil, 1/4 full 39gal. gabage bag horse crap, and 1-2 cups gypsym(if I can afford to get it) seem like a good recipe? and 1 or 2 cups gypsym? which is better 1 or 2 or how do I determine which to use? Also I am mixing now to fill the hole I have made. Will trhis mixture be broken down enough for this next planting season?

Richard,

1. You left out the coffee grounds in the above recipe. Adding a bucket of CG makes it 50% clay and 50% organic matter.

2. 2 cups of gypsum is fine. Find the 50% off ACE hardware coupon in the newspaper or online. Go to Emigh (ACE) hardware tomorrow (11/24) and use it to buy a bag of gypsum. Read label instructions if you have questions.

3. The only other thing I would recommend in a new raised bed here to make the soil "lighter" is maybe small fir bark (not woodchips or sawdust), perlite or shredded leaves. Two cost money and one costs time.

For the record, Sacramento CA is not on the coast. Fresh kelp is several hours away and not easy to access. The native soil is clay from an ancient lake bed, typically hardpan, slightly alkaline and with magnesium and silica. Gypsum helps break up the clay and lower the pH. Planting beds do not need any more salt, especially epsom salt. Once the soil is improved, a garden typically only needs supplemental nitrogen, micro nutrients and a bit more calcium for tomatoes. (IMHO)

Rick

[Redbaron]

There you have it Richard! When in doubt always go with the local experienced expert! General principles are fine, but Rick here is the local expert! Go with what rwsacto says, would be my advice!

[dice]

Oh, and plant these, if you can find some seeds:
http://t.tatianastomatobase.com/wiki/Jumbo_Jim_Orange

They are known to grow well in your area.