5-1-1 Mix and Fertilizing

chris8837 · February 1, 2015

So I'm growing in containers to have more plants and have looked up this mix.

What I'm wondering are your opinions on fertilizing. I mostly do organic and build the soil for my small garden.

Not opposed to chemical just easier to build soil and not worry about feeding constantly.

I know that containers are different from tomatoes ability to destroy water and nutrients.

So just looking for advice on what to put in the pine bark mix to start the containers and what and when to fertilize through the season.

Thanks

Ed of Somis · February 1, 2015

C...it is easier to build a quality organic mix in the ground. Container growing involves ever-changing conditions. In my 3 years of seriously growing in containers...here are the keys I have found. 1. Potting mix must be free draining (no moisture control) and have adequate drainage. I mix in "cactus mix" with my custom blend (fast draining) 2. It is really best to do more diluted fertilizations...rather than less full strength feedings. 3. Watering in summer is a full time job 4. The container forum guys are the experts 5. tomatoes need tons of sun

Barb_FL · February 1, 2015

I did a lot of 5-1-1 tomato plants last spring using root pouches. At first they did great; but I was totally unprepared for how much water they needed. For a lot of plants, I don't think it is a good fit if you have to pay for water, like I do. On the plus side, when it rained for a couple of days, the plants were not fazed.

At the same time, I also started growing tomatoes in EarthBoxes, which I loved and justified buying more by the lower water bills.

Ed of Somis · February 1, 2015

if I am not mistaken...the earthboxes are about $32 each. They require daily water during summer. I am not sure I see the savings. However, I like the EB's as well. The design seems good...and results are generally excellent. Like I said earlier...container growing is work.

Blueaussi · February 1, 2015

I've been using ollas in some of my containers, and I am impressed at how well they work. I have two kinds; a large, thick round one with a lid, and a smaller, butternut squash shaped one with thin walls but no lid. I like the large thick ones best, but they're too big for anything less than a 15 gallon pot.

Gardeneer · February 14, 2015

I use 5-1-1 mix for all my container planting. Because I buy and mix my own, it cost a fraction of the name brand potting soils. Specifically, my cost is 40 cents per gallon.
Other than costs, I think it is superior to the name brand potting soils. It has good drainage and provide goo aeration for the root system.

Jimcooper · February 14, 2015

What is the 5-1-1 mix?

elight · February 14, 2015

Jim, the 5-1-1 mix is the mix designed by Al Tapla for container planting. Here's a good thread explaining it: http://forums2.gardenweb.com/discuss...in-more-detail ... basically, it's 5 parts pine bark fines, 1 part peat, and 1 part perlite.

I am using it for the first time this spring (in zone 9b, just planted out last weekend). I have five 5-gallon smart pots with peppers, and four 7-gallon smart pots with dwarf tomatoes. They are all watered with individual, adjustable 360-degree drippers (these to be specific).

Since these pots are on the same drip irrigation system as my raised beds (which are served by drip lines), it was important to me to have adjustable drippers so I can make sure the containers receive more water as the weather heats up and evaporation drains them of moisture much quicker than the beds.

Here's a photo (ignore the Solo cups... this was right after I planted out... and although the main line is in, I hadn't installed the individual drippers yet):

drew51 · February 14, 2015

I found the 5-1-1 mix too well draining for my needs I use a 3-1-1 mix I also use horticultural diatomaceous earth as it retains about 120% of it's weight in water, and when dry retains air. Pores are large enough for roots to access. I also add compost, one part to introduce bacteria/fungi and to prevent root rot (this is well documented). I use a mix of organic and soluble fertilizers. Still experimenting. I also grow in ground, but to increase the amount of plants I have in my yard I need to use containers.

Jimcooper · February 14, 2015

Quote:

Originally Posted by elight

Jim, the 5-1-1 mix is the mix designed by Al Tapla for container planting. Here's a good thread explaining it: http://forums2.gardenweb.com/discuss...in-more-detail ... basically, it's 5 parts pine bark fines, 1 part peat, and 1 part perlite.

I am using it for the first time this spring (in zone 9b, just planted out last weekend). I have five 5-gallon smart pots with peppers, and four 7-gallon smart pots with dwarf tomatoes. They are all watered with individual, adjustable 360-degree drippers (these to be specific).

Since these pots are on the same drip irrigation system as my raised beds (which are served by drip lines), it was important to me to have adjustable drippers so I can make sure the containers receive more water as the weather heats up and evaporation drains them of moisture much quicker than the beds.

Here's a photo (ignore the Solo cups... this was right after I planted out... and although the main line is in, I hadn't installed the individual drippers yet):

Thanks so much; it was very helpful

Jimcooper · February 14, 2015

Thanks; can't wait to have plants like yours

Barb_FL · February 15, 2015

Drew - your plants are beautiful. So they are from the 3-1-1 and DE?
On the DE, how much do you use?

I found the same thing with the 5-1-1 mix - too dry. When not using earthboxes, I also use the root pouches - up to 15 gallons.

Also, you put the root pouches directly on the deck? I have a lot of tomato plants on my deck also, but started putting wooden slats underneath.

TIA,
Barb

Elight - keep us posted how you do with the 5-1-1; I live on the Central Florida East Coast - so not as hot as Orlando; I was totally unprepared for how much water the plants needed.

drew51 · February 15, 2015

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barb_FL

Drew - your plants are beautiful. So they are from the 3-1-1 and DE?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barb_FL

On the DE, how much do you use?

I found the same thing with the 5-1-1 mix - too dry. When not using earthboxes, I also use the root pouches - up to 15 gallons.

Also, you put the root pouches directly on the deck? I have a lot of tomato plants on my deck also, but started putting wooden slats underneath.

TIA,
Barb

Everybody has to figure out what works for them. if I had a drip system 5-1-1 might be a better option. I use 1 part DE, and I said horticultural, but that stuff is outrageous in cost. Optisorb oil absorbent is the best I found. But I have a hard time finding it. It is 100% DE. And the DE is of decent size pieces. About the size of perlite.
I use one part so a 3-1-1-1. I have been leaving out the perlite but this year I'm putting it back. Just to make sure it has good drainage. The DE absorbs a lot of water, but not all. And it slowly releases it making it available to the plants.
Here is a Night blooming jasmine. The most fragrant flower in the world. You can smell this at night 100 feet away or farther. it is completely covered in blooms.

Here is 2 Chinese 5 color pepper plants

A young ground cherry plant. This plant produced over 400 cherries last year.

Here is the plant a little older on the grass bottom right. The foliage completely covers the fabric pot it is in. On the left are my raised beds. Some of my fruit trees there on the right. The raised beds far left is a 20 foot row of raspberries, beneficial flowers are all over. Blueberry plants are there too. And the right side are tomato plants. At the back of the photo against the shed is a 12 foot row of pole beans.

A close up of the raspberries

Barb_FL · February 15, 2015

Thanks for the info re: Optisorb. The food grade DE that I have always bought is like a powder.

Your garden looks fabulous.

Jimcooper · February 15, 2015

Is DE the dicoutamous(SP?) earth?...

February 1, 2015	#1
chris8837 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 7	5-1-1 Mix and Fertilizing So I'm growing in containers to have more plants and have looked up this mix. What I'm wondering are your opinions on fertilizing. I mostly do organic and build the soil for my small garden. Not opposed to chemical just easier to build soil and not worry about feeding constantly. I know that containers are different from tomatoes ability to destroy water and nutrients. So just looking for advice on what to put in the pine bark mix to start the containers and what and when to fertilize through the season. Thanks

February 14, 2015	#9
drew51 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Sterling Heights, MI Zone 6a/5b Posts: 1,302	I found the 5-1-1 mix too well draining for my needs I use a 3-1-1 mix I also use horticultural diatomaceous earth as it retains about 120% of it's weight in water, and when dry retains air. Pores are large enough for roots to access. I also add compost, one part to introduce bacteria/fungi and to prevent root rot (this is well documented). I use a mix of organic and soluble fertilizers. Still experimenting. I also grow in ground, but to increase the amount of plants I have in my yard I need to use containers. Last edited by drew51; February 14, 2015 at 05:06 PM.

February 1, 2015	#2
Ed of Somis Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Somis, Ca Posts: 649	C...it is easier to build a quality organic mix in the ground. Container growing involves ever-changing conditions. In my 3 years of seriously growing in containers...here are the keys I have found. 1. Potting mix must be free draining (no moisture control) and have adequate drainage. I mix in "cactus mix" with my custom blend (fast draining) 2. It is really best to do more diluted fertilizations...rather than less full strength feedings. 3. Watering in summer is a full time job 4. The container forum guys are the experts 5. tomatoes need tons of sun

February 1, 2015	#3
Barb_FL Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: Indialantic, Florida Posts: 2,000	I did a lot of 5-1-1 tomato plants last spring using root pouches. At first they did great; but I was totally unprepared for how much water they needed. For a lot of plants, I don't think it is a good fit if you have to pay for water, like I do. On the plus side, when it rained for a couple of days, the plants were not fazed. At the same time, I also started growing tomatoes in EarthBoxes, which I loved and justified buying more by the lower water bills.

February 14, 2015	#6
Gardeneer Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2015 Location: NC - zone 8a - heat zone 7 Posts: 4,912	I use 5-1-1 mix for all my container planting. Because I buy and mix my own, it cost a fraction of the name brand potting soils. Specifically, my cost is 40 cents per gallon. Other than costs, I think it is superior to the name brand potting soils. It has good drainage and provide goo aeration for the root system.

February 14, 2015	#7
Jimcooper Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2014 Location: Morgantown, WV Posts: 30	What is the 5-1-1 mix?

February 14, 2015	#8
elight Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Allentown, PA Posts: 349	Jim, the 5-1-1 mix is the mix designed by Al Tapla for container planting. Here's a good thread explaining it: http://forums2.gardenweb.com/discuss...in-more-detail ... basically, it's 5 parts pine bark fines, 1 part peat, and 1 part perlite. I am using it for the first time this spring (in zone 9b, just planted out last weekend). I have five 5-gallon smart pots with peppers, and four 7-gallon smart pots with dwarf tomatoes. They are all watered with individual, adjustable 360-degree drippers (these to be specific). Since these pots are on the same drip irrigation system as my raised beds (which are served by drip lines), it was important to me to have adjustable drippers so I can make sure the containers receive more water as the weather heats up and evaporation drains them of moisture much quicker than the beds. Here's a photo (ignore the Solo cups... this was right after I planted out... and although the main line is in, I hadn't installed the individual drippers yet):

February 15, 2015	#12
Barb_FL Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: Indialantic, Florida Posts: 2,000	Drew - your plants are beautiful. So they are from the 3-1-1 and DE? On the DE, how much do you use? I found the same thing with the 5-1-1 mix - too dry. When not using earthboxes, I also use the root pouches - up to 15 gallons. Also, you put the root pouches directly on the deck? I have a lot of tomato plants on my deck also, but started putting wooden slats underneath. TIA, Barb Elight - keep us posted how you do with the 5-1-1; I live on the Central Florida East Coast - so not as hot as Orlando; I was totally unprepared for how much water the plants needed.