Member discussion regarding the methods, varieties and merits of growing tomatoes.
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December 27, 2006 | #1 |
Tomatovillian™
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: North Florida
Posts: 29
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Factors Affecting Flavor
Please give me your opinion, by listing the most important first, which of these factors has the greatest effect on tomato flavor:
1. The variety of tomato. 2. The length of time it is allowed to stay on the vine and ripen. 3. The amount of sun the tomato plant receives. 4. The types of nutrients supplied the tomato plant. 5. Any other factors you think have a significant effect on flavor. Thanks. |
December 27, 2006 | #2 |
Tomatovillian™
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Warm Springs, GA
Posts: 1,421
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Variety, Weather, Soil................Weather
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December 27, 2006 | #3 | |
Tomatovillian™
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Zone 5 Wisconsin
Posts: 117
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Re: Factors Affecting Flavor
Quote:
Certainly the variety is primary. Genetics rule everything. Somewhere in that list I would include temperature and water though. Nutrient source I would rank last. Perhaps there are those who can distinguish between a fruit grown in manure versus compost versus synthetic fertilizers, but I tend to believe those are the same people who swear a $100 bottle of wine tastes better than a $10 bottle. Maybe they can tell the difference, but I sure can't.
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We don't inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children. |
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December 27, 2006 | #4 |
Tomatovillian™
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: NE Kingdom, VT - Zone 3b
Posts: 1,439
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1. Variety
2. Weather 3. Climate 4. Very Little Else |
December 28, 2006 | #5 |
Tomatovillian™
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: SW Ohio
Posts: 1,278
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You can't do anything about the variety.
You can't do anything about the Weather. But you can do something about the soil your plants are grown in. So concentrate on what you can effect, the soil. It's been said by some who've tasted the same types grown in their garden and those grown in my garden taste better from my garden. Lee, co-sponsor of TomatoPalooza in N. Carolina is one. To my "tomato holes" I add composted peat, composted cow manure, Epson salt and after plant is planted sprinkle a handful of fertilizer around the outer perimeter. This is just one ol' tomato lovin' codger's opinion or way of doing it. :-) |
December 28, 2006 | #6 |
Tomatovillian™
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Evansville, IN
Posts: 2,984
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I've heard from a fairly reliable and technically advanced grower/breeder that indeterminate varieties generally have the ability to develop more flavor than determinate varieties.
Or more specifically, he told me that one variety in particular developed a more full flavor in the indeterminate habit than it did in the determinate habit and that it had something to do with the time to maturity and development of fruit over a longer growing season. Does anyone here have any insight into that theory? PV |
December 28, 2006 | #7 |
Tomatopalooza™ Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: NC-Zone 7
Posts: 2,185
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As Earl pointed out... I've discovered that while the genetics
of a variety are probably the #1 factor influencing taste, soil is a definite close second. I've tasted tomatoes of the exact same variety from the exact same seed source grown in NC vs Ohio, and not a single person would guess they were the same variety. One was tart and delicious, the other was much sweeter and still delicious. The biggest difference was soil. Does weather effect things. Sure. There are some varieties that are quite good with the "right" amount of rainfall, but if they get too much, they become spitters. Anna Russian is a good example of that. The AR I picked early in 2004 was most excellent in size and flavor, one picked later in the season after getting abnormally high amounts of rain fall was bland and a real spitter. Sunlight IMHO only seems to effect yield, but this is a hard one to qualify. Another example of how soil effect taste. At all five tomatopalooza's[tm], I have tried just about every Cherokee Purple that has been brought. (Probably 10+ different growers over the years.) However the hands down best tasting one came out of a farm near Raleigh from a seedling provided by Craig. Now, this Cherokee Purple was better tasting than any I've ever grown, and even better than one's I've tried from Craig's patch. In fact, I would describe it as the best most full flavored tomato I've ever had. And what's the difference, SOIL! And as a side teaser, Craig has hinted that Tomatopalooza[tm] VI may be held at this farm! So come and judge for yourself what a difference soil makes. Lee
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Intelligence is knowing a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is knowing not to put one in a fruit salad. Cuostralee - The best thing on sliced bread. |
December 28, 2006 | #8 |
Tomatovillian™
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: NE Kingdom, VT - Zone 3b
Posts: 1,439
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Papa Vic, you are exactly right. Longer season varieties, whether tomatoes, oranges, watermelons, etc., generally develop more flavor.
I know for a fact from commercial citrus growers in Florida that the longer-to-mature varieties are always sweeter (higher brix). The longer they are "sunkissed" the better the flavor. |
December 28, 2006 | #9 |
Tomatovillian™
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: NE Kingdom, VT - Zone 3b
Posts: 1,439
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Lee, how do you know it is soil and not climate ? There is a big difference between Ohio and NC in climate. Climate is completely different than weather, that is why I listed it separate.
I think soil "type" may have a very slight influence concerning taste, such as a sandy loam may suit tomatoes more than a heavy clay, but that may just because of how it affects root development and water uptake. What you use to amend the soil with seems immaterial to the flavor as all is reduced to a chemical reaction with the root for nutrient uptake. |
December 28, 2006 | #10 | |
Tomatovillian™
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: SW Ohio
Posts: 1,278
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Barkeater said,
Quote:
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December 28, 2006 | #11 |
Tomatovillian™
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: NE Kingdom, VT - Zone 3b
Posts: 1,439
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I definitely agree with you Earl. A shortage of a nutrient or micronutrient affects the plant, and so probably could take away from flavor too.
I was trying to say that the source of the nutrient was immaterial, not the nutrients themselves. |
December 29, 2006 | #12 |
Tomatovillian™
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: NE Kingdom, VT - Zone 3b
Posts: 1,439
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The variability in flavor even within a single variety, in a single field, has been studied in a variety of crops. Apparantly the amount of light has a great deal to do with it.
Overcast skies for a week, or fruit exposure to afternoon sun, and timing of harvest, among others, can change the concentrations of volatile acids and sugars. Check this study out cited below. Although it studies strawberries, farther into it they cite similar results with tomatoes and peaches. http://jxb.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/co...ll/53/377/2121 |
December 29, 2006 | #13 |
Tomatovillian™
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Boonville, NY
Posts: 419
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bark,
Yes! That's it. Cloudiness ruins flavor. Tomatoes taste worse in areas with lots of clouds and taste better in areas that get lots of sunshine. I'm not sure that many people understand that global warming means "different" and more "volatile" weather patterns, not just warmer. Different means, for a lot of us, more clouds, more rain, and more prolonged periods of rain and clouds hanging around. I definitely notice the difference in tomato taste over the last several seasons. =gregg= |
December 30, 2006 | #14 |
Tomatovillian™
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: North Florida
Posts: 29
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You can go at this from a different direction and ask this question: What makes for a poor --read typical grocery store-- tomato?
I think that sunshine probably does greatly affect flavor, but what hasn't been discussed is this: Sunshine doesn't do any good if the tomato is not attached to the vine to receive its benefits. I live in Florida, and within a 20 mile radius of me there are millions of tomato plants staked in vast fields during the summer. With enough chemicals and fertilizers, they produce visually perfect tomatoes that taste only a little better than the cardboard boxes they're shipped in. Why? I guess it could be the soil, but I doubt it. We have a sandy loam that grows tasty crops. I don't think it could be a lack of sunshine; we have more than enough. I think it's because they grow a variety of tomato that is primarily selected for its visual appeal and suitability for shipping and not because it produces a great-flavored tomato. I also think it's because they pick them when they're green and are not truly vine-ripened; again, to make for better shipping. The second you detach a tomato from the vine is the second you shut down the production of sugars in the tomato. And, if you do that too soon, I think it greatly affects flavor. So, I would suggest that the timing of the harvest is also a huge factor. |
December 30, 2006 | #15 |
Tomatovillian™
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: NE Kingdom, VT - Zone 3b
Posts: 1,439
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kimera, I agree with you. I've never had a commercially grown Florida tomato that had any flavor, even vine ripened in the field. And I've lived all over Florida, 10 years altogether.
From Jacksonville to Pensacola, to Ft. Myers, Miami, and Fort Pierce, I hit every farm market I'd see looking for a tomato with flavor. When it comes to supermarket tomatoes, the #1 cause of a lack of flavor is refrigeration. Even a vine-ripened Brandywine would be tasteless if chilled. Further concerning vine ripening, the tomato plant itself shuts off the flow of sugars and acids about 3 days before the tomato is fully ripe. |
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