Abe Lincoln/Abraham Lincoln?

[Gerald51]

I did a google search using both names that turned up conflicting opinions. I found under Abraham Lincoln, "(not to be confused with the modern variety ‘Abe Lincoln’)" and "aka" yet on another link, so are they the same variety or not? I read that there is an early variety.

I also read somewhere that Abraham Lincoln (or was that Abe Lincoln) has the acid taste that I'm looking for.

Gerald

[Tania]

Gerald,

There is a bit of historical information that may be of interest:
http://t-garden.homeip.net/mwiki/ind...braham_Lincoln

I hope it helps.
Tania

[stormymater]

Originally Posted by Tania

Gerald,

There is a bit of historical information that may be of interest:
http://t-garden.homeip.net/mwiki/ind...braham_Lincoln

I hope it helps.
Tania

Tania - you have an awesome site - thank you for linking it. Much awesome info in one place!

[Wi-sunflower]

To further confuse things, Totally Tomatoes lists an Abrahan Lincoln Original and an Abraham Lincoln Improved Hybrid.

I recently ordered seeds for the Original.

[Gerald51]

We need a really knowledgeable person to sort this all out for us.

[Mischka]

Originally Posted by Gerald51

We need a really knowledgeable person to sort this all out for us.

Trust me, it won't be too long, either.

This variety gets a lot of attention and not always for good reasons.

Whatever you do, don't ask about the bronze foliage LOL!

[Gerald51]

Oh, I'm not particularly concerned with the foliage color, because I see it advertised both ways.

Is that how you tell the real difference between a "Abe Lincoln" or "Abraham Lincoln" tomato?

Does one of them have a more acidic taste than the other?

Gerald

[carolyn137]

I think it's worthwhile looking at a bit more history.

Wayne Hilton, who was an ad executive I think with P and G, bought the Shumway name for 2K but since Shumway had been out of business for so many years it came with no seed stock.

So he approached quite a few SSE members to get seed of various varieties and it would make sense to me that that's how he got at least the first Abe Lincoln.

He then started Totally Tomatoes and at that point got involved with subcontracting out for hybrids to be bred. And I'm pretty sure that's where the F1 Abe Lincoln came from.

And as most of you know he sold Shumway and TT and Vermont Bean, etc. to Jung's several years ago and they've retained most of those Abe Lincoln listings.

Tania, this is not info to enter at your site, for several reasons.

And no, Mischka, I'm not going to embarass anyone here talking about the bronze foliage, but I will say that a person I knew years and years ago who lived in the Washington DC area claimed that at about 8 AM one morning he thought he saw a bronze tint to the foliage of the Abe Lincoln he was growing, but never saw it again.

Craig, do you remember Howard Essl as I do?

[nctomatoman]

Thanks Carolyn - yes, I remember!

My take on this - in 1923 Buckbee released a variety called Abraham Lincoln. Any tomatoes named "Abe Lincoln" over the years were just an abbreviated first name, and there should be only one tomato - Abraham Lincoln, AKA Abe Lincoln, apparently, due to sloppiness with name accuracy by various seed savers over the years.

Abraham Lincoln is supposed to be an indeterminate, large fruited red tomato. At some point over the years the commercial strain ended up crossed, and what people end up with when growing Abraham Lincoln is a semi determinate, round, medium red fruited variety that is really not at all what was originally released.

In 1994 I got Abraham Lincoln out of the USDA - it grew indeterminate, and I got large somewhat oblate fruit from it - aside from the lack of bronze tinged foliage that Buckbee described in 1923, it certainly matched the old catalog description better than the strains available commercially.

Of course, I've not grown every "strain" out there by every seed saver and every commercial source. If someone has, or is selling, a truly indeterminate, large (12 ounce or more) red tomato named Abraham Lincoln, that is more like it.

What this story represents (aside from how abbreviated names can lead to the supposition that a different tomato is being discussed) is that tomatoes that have been around for many years have a high risk of getting crossed or mixed up over the years, and may be quite different from what was originally released.

[Gerald51]

Thanks for all the information, but I'm still a little confused, except for the name part.

So, how do the new "strains" taste and who has the best tasting one?

Gerald

[nctomatoman]

The point, Gerald, is that no tomato should really have "strains". If a variety becomes crossed or something quite different, it really should have a different name.

I'm not sure how many people have tried various - let's call them versions or selections - of Abraham Lincoln. I thought that the large indeterminate that I got from the USDA was quite delicious, but it seems a bit disease prone and an iffy yielder. The semi determinate, medium fruited version that I've ended up with when buying commercial seed is a good (but to me not great) tomato.

What makes it hard to answer your question is that it is unclear exactly which company or seed source has what! It is probably trial and error - or, getting it through the SSE (if you are a member) and looking at the yearbook descriptions and finding one that sounds good.

[Gerald51]

It's not all that important to me anyway. I just read somewhere that it had a good old fashioned (acidic) tomato taste.

I still need a few more suggestions to finish out my to grow list. Abraham Lincoln is a little too confusing for my taste, so I think I will drop that one from my to grow list.

Any suggestions out there for a tomato variety that has great taste with a little bite (acidic taste) to it? I don't like just plain ole sweet tasting tomatoes? UK!

Gerald

[nctomatoman]

Aker's West Virginia, Tiger Tom, Azoychka, Andrew Rahart's Jumbo Red, Jaune Flamme all have a nice, tart acidic bite!

[Gerald51]

Thanks alot!

Gerald

[Wi-sunflower]

Carolyn's info about the beginnings of Totally Tomatoes adds insight to observations I had made to myself not knowing the true facts.

I think I've been buying from TT since the beginning, tho more Peppers than tomatoes at first. In some of those early years, I'm guessing that some of the seed grow-outs were done in the Caribbean as many of those varieties originated there. The big problem with the peppers was you never quite knew WHAT you were going to get from the seeds. Plenty of crossed stuff and / or just plain mixed up seed.

There were a few years like that, but it has been a long time since I've had any problems like that any more. And definitely not since Jungs has had Totally Tomatoes.

BTW, TT isn't the only company that has had "mix-up" problems. For the last 2 years I've grown the pepper Garden Salsa from plugs I've gotten from 1 of the biggest plug growers in the country. Garden Salsa is supposed to be an Anaheim shaped mildly hot pepper that has a Jalapeño flavor. What I've gotten tho is a quite hot large pointed Cayenne. Very productive, but not the mild pepper I was looking for. Did someone sell them mis-marked seed or did some worker just put seed back into the wrong package after running a certain number of flats ??? Who knows.