Indian Stripe name change

[travis]

MAF, here's the real kicker ...

Remember back when Carolyn said she and LeHoullier thought Indian Stripe might be a close variant of Cherokee Purple, except that Indian Stripe produced more fruit per cluster, that the fruit was noticeably smaller, and the color a bit lighter? Carolyn stated all this in the SSE Yearbook listing and at various discussion sites.

Well, here's the kicker: Indian Zebra looks to me much closer to Cherokee Purple in the fruit, and the exception being it's a slightly more compact indeterminate vine with a bit less dense canopy.

[Worth1]

This is so incomprehensible to me.

Over a tomato.

Worth

[maf]

Originally Posted by travis

Well, here's the kicker: Indian Zebra looks to me much closer to Cherokee Purple in the fruit, and the exception being it's a slightly more compact indeterminate vine with a bit less dense canopy.

Sounds like good traits to me.

I have seed from Mr B. H. dating from 2012 or maybe 2011 that are labelled "Indian Stripe (Burson Strain)". I am 100% certain they are the genuine Indian Zebra. I have been meaning to plant them for a while..... they will definitely hit dirt in 2015

[carolyn137]

Just time for a couple of answers right now.

First, Donna did tell me that Burson Sr told her that is was called either IS or IZ, which she repeated to me as I posted above and let me chose the name, and she did here and at idig as well. She made no mention of Burson Sr calling it only IZ.

Second, I'd have to go back and look at some older SSE Yearbooks to find who sent me IS PL , which has been very popular as listed with my annual seed offer,and IS heart, b'c right now I don't remember who sent them to me.

When I sent IS seeds to Mike at Victory Seeds or Glenn at Sandhill or Linda at TGS or wherever, I would hope they would get what I did with the original seeds from Donna, but for various reasons that may not always be the case. And yes, I saved seeds from the original IS plants I grew and when replanted I got the same/ I think it was just a couple of years ago that I sent some of those seeds to my brother in NC since he lives in the area where the Cherokee lived.

Bill, I agree with you in that I truly have had enough of this IS vs IZ business, enough to last me until I join the Tomato Goddesses and Gods up in that huge tomato field in the sky.

I thought of saying more, and maybe I will, but right now I won't.

Carolyn

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by travis

MAF, here's the real kicker ...

Remember back when Carolyn said she and LeHoullier thought Indian Stripe might be a close variant of Cherokee Purple, except that Indian Stripe produced more fruit per cluster, that the fruit was noticeably smaller, and the color a bit lighter? Carolyn stated all this in the SSE Yearbook listing and at various discussion sites.

Well, here's the kicker: Indian Zebra looks to me much closer to Cherokee Purple in the fruit, and the exception being it's a slightly more compact indeterminate vine with a bit less dense canopy.

Yes I did Bill, and in my most recent post here I said that when I send out seeds of varieties to commercial places or friends I expect them to get what I got with Donna's original seeds but that isn't always the case when others do their own seed production or subcontract out, and I know you know that canhappenwith almost any variety.. It's one of the reasons that 've never thrown out one saved seeds since 1990 and and Tania and Remy have been the benefactors of that when they get sent seeds that aren't true to the original variety/

And yes, Craig Lehoullier was the first person I sent seeds to and yes, he also though it was a version ( not the same) of Cherokee Purple as I did and said the same in my original SSE listing. And a version since he's the one, as you know, who introduced CP. And Yes, I was one of the first persons Craig sent CP to, so yes I knew it well.

For several years I followed my listing for IS in the SSE Yearbooks and what was described was the same as I got but I haven't followed the listings lately.

Carolyn

[roper2008]

Originally Posted by Worth1

This is so incomprehensible to me.

Over a tomato.

Worth

LOL, yep over a tomato Now I need to find seeds to Indian Zebra.

[b54red]

Originally Posted by travis

Also, what do you think of "Indian Stripe PL" which originated I believe in a Georgia garden, and which I have grown out here only to find it a pitiful replication of Indian Stripe with regard to production and disease tolerance. Same comment applies as I made about the "heart" with respect to instability or an outcross.

Bill

I sent Indian Stripe PL to Carolyn and to a good many others on Tomatoville a few years back to see if it would grow out true. Most people have been very pleased with it. Since I started growing IS down here in this hot and humid climate IS has proven itself the most resilient and dependable of all the heirlooms I have grown. I have had two years where IS didn't do very well but they were usually years with exceptionally rainy conditions over a long period. This year Indian Stripe PL was the most productive tomato I grew and far surpassed the regular IS. I plant both every year and only twice has the PL version outperformed the regular leaf version but this year the PL version far surpassed the regular leaf in size and numbers of fruit and also in the health of the vines. A friend of mine who also plants both versions told me the PL version produced much bigger and more plentiful fruit this year.

I have never seen nor grown the Zebra version so I can't comment on the plant or its fruit. I have noticed that the coloring of IS is really determined by the weather down here. In the spring and early summer the fruits are fairly light but in very late summer and fall they tend to be much darker; but I have noticed that same thing on a lot of the black tomatoes. I would love to try them all in the same bed and see how they compare since I am a real fan of the black tomatoes.

Bill you spoke of getting a pink tomato from your IS seed one time and so did I along with a red one. I found both those plants to be exceptionally resistant to the common diseases both soil borne and foliage. The tomatoes those plants produced were not as large nor did they have that black tomato flavor but they were monster producers. I even used seed from those plants to grow rootstock which resulted in grafts that were much more tolerant of soil diseases than the scion grafted onto them.

All in all I think it would be great if there were another distinctly different strain of Indian Stripe since it is almost always my most dependable plant.

Bill

[ginger2778]

Originally Posted by roper2008

LOL, yep over a tomato Now I need to find seeds to Indian Zebra.

I know, right?

[Sun City Linda]

Originally Posted by ginger2778

Bill, what did you think my intent was, as the OP? That you are getting hot under the collar at me? I ask questions to learn, since I do not know anything close to everything in the tomato world, or elsewhere.i certainly will never know as much as you. I NEVER knew there were 2 different tomatoes, just knew about IS, then saw it called IZBS, and I honestly thought it was a name change. I asked about it early this AM, on the different forum, and was told by a member there who also knows much more than I, exactly what I posted here. He made it sound like a done deal. I know
I am rather stupid, but your explanation and Maf's was very helpful, and I am trying " real hard" to understand it, and I think it is working! Now I get it. I am truly sorry to be so much trouble. I haven't read your post at the other place, but now I am scared too, because this one was kind of hurtful.
I do, and always have respected you.

Blessed are the peacemakers.....

[joseph]

Ha! I grew Indian Stripe this summer without realizing it... And some F1 hybrids with Indian Stripe as a parent. They were way-too-long-season tomatoes that I picked green before frost. They are ripening on the front porch. I suppose that I get to go out and sort through them to see if I can find anything that looks like an Indian Stripe. I saved some of the too long season tomatoes that had open flowers into a common seed lot, so perhaps the seed-lottery-fairy will choose for me to grow Indian Stripe again next summer, or a hybrid or segregate.

[AlittleSalt]

From an outside way of looking at it, it is nice that there are so many varieties to choose from. For some of us, a name does not mean that much. What variety grows well and tastes wonderful when grown in our particular garden is most important.

I understand that getting the history part right is important. I checked in from time-to-time today and read the replies. What I read between the lines was friends talking and trying to get that history part right. You all had highs and lows, but along the way, you educated at least some of us. I am one of them.

I chose one internet site to learn from. I could not care less whatever goes on with some other site. For me, learning from Tomatoville members is the way to go. Whatever happened here years ago is in the past.

Just the way this new Tomatoville member sees a better future.

[joseph]

To me, growing is about the future and not the past. Just about every variety of every species loses it's name as soon as it gets planted out into the garden, and it gets creolized as quickly as possible. If there is a story of origin associated with a variety I rarely, if ever, pay attention to it.

The story of origin of my varieties is usually some variation on the theme, "I planted a bunch of varieties, and let them intermingle, and saved the seeds from what worked in my garden and with my techniques, and that tasted good to me." (Or in the case of tomatoes, what tasted less bad...)

[kurt]

If the persons were the original breeders and developers of the mater in question I could see the "hot under the collar"reason.But they just got to handle the original seeds and maybe want bragging and naming rights, that is absurd.All the original poster did was to mention a "naming change" for general info and now all of this,really?

[Fiishergurl]

Originally Posted by kurt

If the persons were the original breeders and developers of the mater in question I could see the "hot under the collar"reason.But they just got to handle the original seeds and maybe want bragging and naming rights, that is absurd.All the original poster did was to mention a "naming change" for general info and now all of this,really?

Agreed.

[Sun City Linda]

Originally Posted by kurt

If the persons were the original breeders and developers of the mater in question I could see the "hot under the collar"reason.But they just got to handle the original seeds and maybe want bragging and naming rights, that is absurd.All the original poster did was to mention a "naming change" for general info and now all of this,really?

I have a hard time understanding why any offense was taken to the op myself.