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Old January 12, 2013   #1
livinonfaith
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Default Best grafted tomato varieties?

This year appears to be the year of grafting for a few of us. So, being a big bandwagon jumper, I'm on board! Honestly, I'm just tired of putting a lot of effort into growing beautiful heirloom tomato plants and then losing them to disease before they give me a decent crop.

So, things are shaping up for the great experiment! I have my rootstock. http://www.harrisseeds.com/storefron...rootstock.aspx And I have my clips.

Here is the problem. I also have 42 varieties of seeds. Those I have narrowed down (painfully!) to sixteen. What I'm hoping for is a little help from my esteemed T-ville members to narrow this down even further.

So, if anyone knows of any potential problems that any of these varieties might have with grafting, that would be very helpful! Also, any general thoughts on these varieties, especially productivity or heat resistance, would be helpful and most appreciated.

Cherry - planting 2of 2
White Rabbit - Already disease tolerant, so will not be grafting
Black Cherry

Small Salad - Planting 3 of 4
Juanne Flamme
Green Zebra
Black Trifele
Kibic - (May not graft, as this one did well last year)

Medium - Planting 3 of 5
Amish Paste
Cherokee Purple
T C Jones
Hazelfield Farm
Arkansas Traveler

Large - planting 3 of 5
Cowlick Brandywine
KBX
German Johnson Pink
Hillbilly
Aunt Ruby's German Green

Last edited by livinonfaith; January 12, 2013 at 05:24 PM. Reason: correction of terminology
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Old January 12, 2013   #2
carolyn137
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I'm' still confused about your comment that White Rabbit is disease resistant and I know you meant tolerant

Which diseases?

White Rabbit is essentially the same as SnowWhite, Super SnowWhite and Ghost, all bred by Joe Bratka and I don't know that any of them are disease tolerant to any diseases, two that I grew of them sure weren't , that I know, and I speak of foliage diseases. And Joe didn't have any soilborne systemic diseases in NJ where he did his breeding work.

'Tis a puzzlement as Yul Brunner used to sing in Anna and the King of Siam.

Carolyn
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Old January 12, 2013   #3
b54red
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I don't think I would pay nearly 30 cents a seed for a variety that is only resistant to two races of fusarium since my garden seems to have them all. Big Beef has that and you can get the seeds cheaper. I am going to try Big Beef and Ball's which are both resistant to only two strains of fusarium. I am also going to try Floralina and Tasti-Lee which are resistant to all three. I will try to keep decent records of which rootstock does the best. I am also trying an OP variety that has lived very long in my fusarium infested garden for the last two seasons. I am hoping it does the best since the seeds are free.

I can tell you from experience that German Johnson, Green Zebra, and Hillbilly have never been able to survive in my garden. Cowlicks, KBX, and Arkansas Traveler have problems but seem a bit more tolerant. I have found Cherokee Purple to be one of the more disease tolerant varieties but still not as tough as a hybrid like Big Beef.

Best of luck with your grafting. I am going to try it on as large a number of different varieties as I can to see if it helps me with my persistent fusarium and bacterial wilt problem. I don't think it will do much for TSWV, Gray Mold, Early or Late Blight, Septoria and the host of pests that attack my tomatoes every year but if I can get help with the fusarium I'll be a much happier tomato grower.
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Old January 12, 2013   #4
livinonfaith
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I don't think I would pay nearly 30 cents a seed for a variety that is only resistant to two races of fusarium since my garden seems to have them all. Big Beef has that and you can get the seeds cheaper. I am going to try Big Beef and Ball's which are both resistant to only two strains of fusarium. I am also going to try Floralina and Tasti-Lee which are resistant to all three. I will try to keep decent records of which rootstock does the best. I am also trying an OP variety that has lived very long in my fusarium infested garden for the last two seasons. I am hoping it does the best since the seeds are free.

I can tell you from experience that German Johnson, Green Zebra, and Hillbilly have never been able to survive in my garden. Cowlicks, KBX, and Arkansas Traveler have problems but seem a bit more tolerant. I have found Cherokee Purple to be one of the more disease tolerant varieties but still not as tough as a hybrid like Big Beef.

Best of luck with your grafting. I am going to try it on as large a number of different varieties as I can to see if it helps me with my persistent fusarium and bacterial wilt problem. I don't think it will do much for TSWV, Gray Mold, Early or Late Blight, Septoria and the host of pests that attack my tomatoes every year but if I can get help with the fusarium I'll be a much happier tomato grower.
Wow! you are incredibly adventurous! That sounds like a lot of data to keep track of. (Which is my way of saying that I am both impressed and a little jealous of how industrious you are! ) I can't wait to hear about what you find out. (Please, please keep us posted!)

Yes, I don't know if I have chosen the correct rootstock or not. This rootstock won over the others because of a research paper about how it performed in my state. They rated it higher than three others. http://www4.ncsu.edu/~clrivard/OFRF_Final_Report.pdf

I will also be planting in large containers with fresh soil this year to stave off any soil borne disease and pests. (voles, in my case)

If this new rootstock even lets me get an average of four or five lbs. per plant, it will be more than worth it to me. While I usually get at least a few tomatoes per plant, lately there have been some that I've gotten nothing at all. That is heartbreaking after all the work required to get them to fruition!

Thanks also for the info. on which varieties work best for you. It is so hard to choose from these last few and any little nudge will help.

Hope to see you on some positive grafting report threads in the future!

Last edited by livinonfaith; January 12, 2013 at 05:34 PM.
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Old January 12, 2013   #5
livinonfaith
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Hi Carolyn!

I think that the two diseases on plants near the White Rabbit were Fusarium and then Early Blight. (However, I wouldn't bet my first born on that as I didn't have them tested, only compared them to online photos and descriptions.)

I really had no knowledge of how White Rabbit did in anyone else's garden, only mine. But in mine it outshone every other variety. (Out of twenty varieties) When the other tomato plants around it were dead and dying, it was cavorting wildly through their dead carcasses!

That's why I marked it in my notes to be disease tolerant, at least in my little nook of the world.
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Old January 13, 2013   #6
FarmerShawn
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Hi Carolyn!

I think that the two diseases on plants near the White Rabbit were Fusarium and then Early Blight. (However, I wouldn't bet my first born on that as I didn't have them tested, only compared them to online photos and descriptions.)

I really had no knowledge of how White Rabbit did in anyone else's garden, only mine. But in mine it outshone every other variety. (Out of twenty varieties) When the other tomato plants around it were dead and dying, it was cavorting wildly through their dead carcasses!

That's why I marked it in my notes to be disease tolerant, at least in my little nook of the world.
Although I don't think I have soil-borne diseases this far north, Juliet (F1) consistently resists the plagues that always do hit around here, and shows uncommon vigor growing in my garden. That's why this year I am going to experiment with grafting onto it for rootstock. I just don't see the need to go to the expense of paying the high price for the "official" rootstock seeds from Johnny's. Two years of side-by-side grafting experiments have been inconclusive at best. In general, I'd say the grafted ones do slightly better, but each year my best couple of plants of any grafted variety (I've tried several) have been the ungrafted "control" plants. That's "best" in terms of general vigor, as well as production.
In light of that, you might be tempted to experiment with grafting onto some of your White Rabbit plants as rootstock. Why not?
Shawn
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Old January 13, 2013   #7
livinonfaith
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Thanks FarmerShawn for your information!

I would love to hear which of the rootstocks you've tried and, later, how Juliet ends up comparing to them.

Just some thoughts (from someone who truly knows almost nothing about the process, but who loves to brainstorm) perhaps since you have very little soil borne illness, that extra from the graft isn't giving you any real advantage. Maybe you are actually losing a bit in productivity either by getting the plants out a bit later (because of the recovery time involved) or because grafting might have a slight negative effect on the vascular system of the plant where it joins?

Maybe the rootstock that you need (if you need one at all) should be one that stresses being super vigorous over disease tolerance? Maybe that's where Juliet will come in for you. I hope so! (And if this brainstorming sounds super stupid, let me know so that I won't ever say it again!)

I actually did think about using the White Rabbit rootstock, but wondered whether it would have the vigor that is generally associated with hybrids. I mean, White Rabbit is vigorous, but many cherry tomatoes are. I don't know if it would pass that on to regular sized fruit?

Also, while it ends up being a large sprawling plant, it had more delicate looking stems than my other plants. (And it stayed quite a bit smaller than the other plants for quite a while). I wasn't sure that small stem would support the faster growing stems of the scions or even if I would be able to coordinate the stem sizes of WR and scion for grafting.

So I went with one that seems to be a good fit for my area. I don't grow enough to do a lot of experimenting, but will if this one doesn't work out.

As far as cost, seriously, if I can even get a regular amount of beautiful heirloom tomatoes, that would make the grafting cost and time, of seed and clips, worth it many times over for me!
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Old January 14, 2013   #8
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The three I've tried were all from Johnny's - Beaufort, Maxifort, and Collosus. I have a few of the C seeds left, so I will probably also go ahead and plant those this year, along with my Juliet experiments. The thing that I think may hold grafted plants back as much as anything else is the inability to plant deeply, as I always do with ungrafted ones. My understanding is that if you plant so deeply that the graft is under the soil line, you've basically lost any benefit from the graft, since new roots will grow from above the graft. But perhaps this only applies if you're looking to take advantage of soil-borne disease resistance. I dunno...
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Old January 14, 2013   #9
livinonfaith
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Farmershawn, you may be right about not being able to plant deeply. That also worries me a little. I usually plant well past the cotyledons, even in containers. My understanding is that the root systems of these rootstock are vigorous enough to make up for that, but it still seems strange.

I'm under the impression that you lose all of the characteristics of the rootstock if the scion forms it's own root system, but may be mistaken.

Have you heard anyone talking about making the graft higher up the root stock? Maybe pinch the cotyledons off and make it between there and the first true leaves?

You would have to be on the lookout for stray rootstock branches from where the cotyledon was, so it might not be good for large operations. But for a home gardener with about twenty plants, like me, it really shouldn't be a problem. That would give you at least a few more inches (once they are larger) to bury.

Has anyone heard of any reason that would be a problem?
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Old January 14, 2013   #10
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Shawn I think you have made a great choice for a rootstock. Juliet is one of the most vigorous plants. It however doesn't have strong resistance to fusarium which makes it less viable for me but that should be no problem up there. I did get a Juliet to grow one year in a spot that obviously didn't have much fusarium and the thing became a monster. It actually took over nearly one fourth of my garden before I finally pulled it so it wouldn't smother all my other plants.
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Old January 21, 2013   #11
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Originally Posted by livinonfaith View Post
Farmershawn, you may be right about not being able to plant deeply. That also worries me a little. I usually plant well past the cotyledons, even in containers. My understanding is that the root systems of these rootstock are vigorous enough to make up for that, but it still seems strange.

I'm under the impression that you lose all of the characteristics of the rootstock if the scion forms it's own root system, but may be mistaken.

Have you heard anyone talking about making the graft higher up the root stock? Maybe pinch the cotyledons off and make it between there and the first true leaves?
The above question/concern is one that's bothered me for some time as well. I came to the same possible solution when thinking about the problem. If we could just perform the graft higher up on the RS, then we'd be able to bury down more of the mother plant. I hope someone can chime in on whether this is a viable option, as my main concern is the grafting success rate might fall precipitously as you move the union up the RS stem. I'm not sure if that's a valid concern or not.

-naysen
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Old January 21, 2013   #12
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If one of the primary benefits of the "bury deep" practice is to develop a more vigorous root system, that shouldn't be necessary when grafting to rootstock such as Maxifort. It's got vigor aplenty. From what I've read, the challenge is to limit the vigor in order to balance foliage/fruit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by z_willus_d View Post
The above question/concern is one that's bothered me for some time as well. I came to the same possible solution when thinking about the problem. If we could just perform the graft higher up on the RS, then we'd be able to bury down more of the mother plant. I hope someone can chime in on whether this is a viable option, as my main concern is the grafting success rate might fall precipitously as you move the union up the RS stem. I'm not sure if that's a valid concern or not.

-naysen
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Old January 15, 2013   #13
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For anyone wanting to try their hand at grafting, this video from Johnny's will be a great help. I cannot emphasize enough that you should use a dome-covered tray, keep the inside humid and away from sunlight/high heat until the grafts have taken.

You can find inexpensive double edge razor blades at Wal-Mart; Wilkinson Sword. $1.76 for a ten pack. The major drug store chains also sell them, but at up to 3X the price - or higher!

http://www.walmart.com/ip/20926177?a...l5=pla&veh=sem

Two things you don't want to do:

Do not bury the tomato seedlings below the grafted section of the stem. This defeats the purpose of using rootstock, since the top-grafted scion will send out roots of its' own.

Don't cut yourself! These blades are literally razor sharp. If you feel uncomfortable handling a thin bare blade, you can pick up an inexpensive razor that is designed to hold 1/2 a blade, after you split it in two. This is what I use. I also keep a glass of 90% isopropyl alcohol on the bench, to sterilize the blade as needed. (Give it a few minutes to dry before you start making your cuts) Sally Beauty stocks this razor in their stores and I'm sure you can find one at other beauty/barber suppliers. http://www.sallybeauty.com/Magic-Raz...l?cm_vc=SEARCH

Video credit: Produced by Vern Grubinger, University of Vermont Extension

http://www.johnnyseeds.com/t-video_tomato_grafting.aspx
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Old January 15, 2013   #14
livinonfaith
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Thanks Mischka! Do you usually use the side graft or the one where you just go ahead and cut it all the way off? As a beginner, I tend to thing the side graft would give me a little more wiggle room if I make a mistake and be less stressful to the plant.

Any opinion?
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Old January 16, 2013   #15
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My wife, a bookbinder, uses surgical scalpels in her work, and I just steal one from her for grafting. They work great, are super sharp, hold that sharpness for a long time, and my klutzy fingers really appreciate the handle.
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