Problem making CRW cages - Page 2

RonnyWil · February 20, 2011

Zip ties tend to break down in the sunlight and crack easily. I have used hog rings to put together cattle panels and metal bread or cupcake trays to make cages. I get them at Tractor Supply.

Pyrrho · February 20, 2011

Just some follow-up notes. I went to the nearest Home Depot today and couldn't find wire rope clips to determine the appropriate size as Raybo suggested. What I did find was wire rope, and the diameter of the 1/8" rope matches the CRW exactly. I'll go ahead and order the 1/8" clips, and let everyone know if there's a problem with the fit.

I looked at my cages again this morning, and while I initially described my method as bending the wire at the weld point, this really isn't the case: when I bend it around the other vertical wire to close the cylinder, the apex of the bend (the most stressed point) is about 1/2" away from the weld point, and the break points are at this 1/2" distance from the weld as well. The weld doesn't seem to be the cause of the problem, but rather the wire itself.

When I compared my new CRW with what I used on the older cages I noticed a difference: the new wire has a kind of stamped texturing throughout the wire, whereas the older wire is smooth. I assume the texturing might help hold the concrete in place when the CRW is used for its original purpose, but it may account for the stress in the material that causes it to break.

I bought my (textured) CRW at Lowes, but I noticed that the CRW at Home Depot didn't seem to have this texturing (it was way up on a shelf, so I can't say for certain). That said, if you can get CRW from a number of outlets, you might want to try to get the smooth wire.

I also noticed that zip ties are $6/100, as opposed to the $16/100 (incl. shipping) for the wire rope clips, so the price difference isn't huge -- unless you're buying really large quantities.

I saw some stainless steel zip ties that were $4 for a pack of 10. I don't know how well they'd work for this job, but I don't think they'd crack the way the plastic ones do. Kinda pricey though.

rnewste · February 20, 2011

I think you are going to have a more rigid cage system using the wire rope clips vs. zip ties. Also, the wire rope clips are reusable, where the zip ties are not.

For attaching the upper extension cages, I would never use a plastic material like zip ties. Here, the metal wire rope clips will make the base and extension cage sections seem like one.

Raybo

Worth1 · February 23, 2011

Too bad you guys dont have a TIG welder like I do, it would solve all of your problems.

Worth

frankkj · February 24, 2011

I made some 20+ years ago and they are still going strong. I used hog rings to secure the ends together, about 4 per cage. Never had a problem with them breaking.

Frank

Worth1 · February 24, 2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by frankkj

I made some 20+ years ago and they are still going strong. I used hog rings to secure the ends together, about 4 per cage. Never had a problem with them breaking.

Frank

Just to clarify things, a "hog ring" is what they put through a hogs nose to keep it from rooting.

They have been used for many things one is in the upholstery business another to put together fish traps.
A wonderfull idea for the tomato cages, 'yet another use for the lowly hog ring.

Just dont forget to get your "hog ring pliers" with the hog rings.

Worth

Pyrrho · February 24, 2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by Worth1

Too bad you guys dont have a TIG welder like I do, it would solve all of your problems.

Worth

I my sister probably has one, but she lives in New York.

The wire rope clips (1/8") arrived today, so I'll be giving those a try this weekend -- if I can find time after FINALLY starting my seeds!!!

sprtsguy76 · February 24, 2011

You can get uv resistant zip ties, I know because I bought some. And I use them for attaching my CRW cages to my swc's. They work great for that and are solid for one year. But I'd use the wire rope clips for joining the cages for sure.

Damon

Worth1 · February 25, 2011

OK I've chewed on this for a while about the tie wraps.

First of all the cheap tie wraps some of you guys are getting must be from the big box store.
I have used tie wraps for years outside, many thousands of them.
They are used in cable trays in the petro-chemical industrty.
They are made by these people and they last for years. You get the good ones at an electrical supply house.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sourc...O5bgyQ&cad=rja

I always used the black ones.

Worth

duckfan · February 25, 2011

I'm with Worth. The zip ties I use seem to last forever. I have some that I used to attach a coax cable to the TV antenna mast over 10 years ago. They're still there and they're holding up fine. I get them an electrical supply house. They come in a bag of 100 or so for a few bucks. At the end of the season I just cut them off with wire cutters and store my cages flat. It saves a lot of room.

tomakers · February 26, 2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by Worth1

OK I've chewed on this for a while about the tie wraps.

First of all the cheap tie wraps some of you guys are getting must be from the big box store.
I have used tie wraps for years outside, many thousands of them.
They are used in cable trays in the petro-chemical industrty.
They are made by these people and they last for years. You get the good ones at an electrical supply house.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sourc...O5bgyQ&cad=rja

I always used the black ones.

Worth

Worth is correct, there are some made to be used in uv and they last for YEARS. We have used them for years on our cranberry bogs, but I do order them special for use outside. You can get black or white, if it matters.

They are pretty cheap in bulk. If I remember right $19/thousand last time I bought them.
Tom

Red Dirt Farmer · April 26, 2011

FWIW,
Some zip ties are UV rated. They will last for many seasons.
Look for the UV on the package.
Ken

sprtsguy76 · April 26, 2011

Ya you know what. I ended up using the uv zip ties for everything, closing cages and mounting them. Too much time and effort on the wire rope clips. Zip ties are sooooo easy.

Damon

camochef · April 26, 2011

All you need is a decent pair of fencing tool pliers. You can cut the wire with them, grab hold and twist it wherever you want with a twist of the wrist. I have over 400 cages and every one was put together with a fencing tool. You should be able to find it at any farm supply store.
Camo

tuk50 · May 5, 2011

Frank, talked about hog rings in post 20... I also have used them to make all my cages and many other wire projects... they are cheap, strong, weather proof and you can remove them easily to change shape or whatever.
Home Depot and Lowe's carry them.
On my large varieties of tomatoes I sometimes stack a second cage on the first and they are strong enough to handle this also.

February 20, 2011	#16
RonnyWil Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Collierville TN Posts: 106	Zip ties tend to break down in the sunlight and crack easily. I have used hog rings to put together cattle panels and metal bread or cupcake trays to make cages. I get them at Tractor Supply. __________________ I'm two days older than dirt and I like to play in it.

February 24, 2011	#20
frankkj Tomatovillian™ Join Date: May 2007 Location: Louisiana Posts: 90	I made some 20+ years ago and they are still going strong. I used hog rings to secure the ends together, about 4 per cage. Never had a problem with them breaking. Frank __________________ Old and Wise? Or maybe just getting old?

May 5, 2011	#30
tuk50 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Tucson, Arizona (catalina) Posts: 413	Frank, talked about hog rings in post 20... I also have used them to make all my cages and many other wire projects... they are cheap, strong, weather proof and you can remove them easily to change shape or whatever. Home Depot and Lowe's carry them. On my large varieties of tomatoes I sometimes stack a second cage on the first and they are strong enough to handle this also. __________________ Hangin on for dear life!

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February 20, 2011	#17
Pyrrho Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 75	Just some follow-up notes. I went to the nearest Home Depot today and couldn't find wire rope clips to determine the appropriate size as Raybo suggested. What I did find was wire rope, and the diameter of the 1/8" rope matches the CRW exactly. I'll go ahead and order the 1/8" clips, and let everyone know if there's a problem with the fit. I looked at my cages again this morning, and while I initially described my method as bending the wire at the weld point, this really isn't the case: when I bend it around the other vertical wire to close the cylinder, the apex of the bend (the most stressed point) is about 1/2" away from the weld point, and the break points are at this 1/2" distance from the weld as well. The weld doesn't seem to be the cause of the problem, but rather the wire itself. When I compared my new CRW with what I used on the older cages I noticed a difference: the new wire has a kind of stamped texturing throughout the wire, whereas the older wire is smooth. I assume the texturing might help hold the concrete in place when the CRW is used for its original purpose, but it may account for the stress in the material that causes it to break. I bought my (textured) CRW at Lowes, but I noticed that the CRW at Home Depot didn't seem to have this texturing (it was way up on a shelf, so I can't say for certain). That said, if you can get CRW from a number of outlets, you might want to try to get the smooth wire. I also noticed that zip ties are $6/100, as opposed to the $16/100 (incl. shipping) for the wire rope clips, so the price difference isn't huge -- unless you're buying really large quantities. I saw some stainless steel zip ties that were $4 for a pack of 10. I don't know how well they'd work for this job, but I don't think they'd crack the way the plastic ones do. Kinda pricey though.

February 20, 2011	#18
rnewste Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Campbell, CA Posts: 4,064	I think you are going to have a more rigid cage system using the wire rope clips vs. zip ties. Also, the wire rope clips are reusable, where the zip ties are not. For attaching the upper extension cages, I would never use a plastic material like zip ties. Here, the metal wire rope clips will make the base and extension cage sections seem like one. Raybo

February 23, 2011	#19
Worth1 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Den of Drunken Fools Posts: 38,539	Too bad you guys dont have a TIG welder like I do, it would solve all of your problems. Worth

February 24, 2011	#23
sprtsguy76 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: May 2007 Location: Santa Clara CA Posts: 1,125	You can get uv resistant zip ties, I know because I bought some. And I use them for attaching my CRW cages to my swc's. They work great for that and are solid for one year. But I'd use the wire rope clips for joining the cages for sure. Damon

February 25, 2011	#24
Worth1 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Den of Drunken Fools Posts: 38,539	OK I've chewed on this for a while about the tie wraps. First of all the cheap tie wraps some of you guys are getting must be from the big box store. I have used tie wraps for years outside, many thousands of them. They are used in cable trays in the petro-chemical industrty. They are made by these people and they last for years. You get the good ones at an electrical supply house. http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sourc...O5bgyQ&cad=rja I always used the black ones. Worth

February 25, 2011	#25
duckfan Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Long Island formerly zone 6 Posts: 61	I'm with Worth. The zip ties I use seem to last forever. I have some that I used to attach a coax cable to the TV antenna mast over 10 years ago. They're still there and they're holding up fine. I get them an electrical supply house. They come in a bag of 100 or so for a few bucks. At the end of the season I just cut them off with wire cutters and store my cages flat. It saves a lot of room.

April 26, 2011	#27
Red Dirt Farmer Tomatovillian™ Join Date: May 2010 Location: Oklahoma City, OK Posts: 42	FWIW, Some zip ties are UV rated. They will last for many seasons. Look for the UV on the package. Ken

April 26, 2011	#29
camochef Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Gettysburg, Pennsylvania Posts: 707	All you need is a decent pair of fencing tool pliers. You can cut the wire with them, grab hold and twist it wherever you want with a twist of the wrist. I have over 400 cages and every one was put together with a fencing tool. You should be able to find it at any farm supply store. Camo