Tomatoville® Gardening Forums


Notices

New to growing your own tomatoes? This is the forum to learn the successful techniques used by seasoned tomato growers. Questions are welcome, too.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 1 Week Ago   #1
Starlight
Tomatovillian™
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: AL
Posts: 1,966
Default Seed difference?

I'm not all up on tomato genetics, and was wondering this....

I'm saving seed now. I have lots of large tomatoes and some of those tomatoes are megablooms. I have the normal size ones th cultivar should be that were on the plant and from same cultivar different plant it made almost all megablooms.

When I save the seed, do I need to keep them separate and marked separate? I don't know if making megablooms is a trait that passed on to next generation or not.
Starlight is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1 Week Ago   #2
carolyn137
Tomatoville® Moderator
 
carolyn137's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Upstate NY, zone 4b/5a
Posts: 19,673
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Starlight View Post
I'm not all up on tomato genetics, and was wondering this....

I'm saving seed now. I have lots of large tomatoes and some of those tomatoes are megablooms. I have the normal size ones th cultivar should be that were on the plant and from same cultivar different plant it made almost all megablooms.

When I save the seed, do I need to keep them separate and marked separate? I don't know if making megablooms is a trait that passed on to next generation or not.
You should never ever save seeds from a fruit that resulted from a megabloom and here's why.

You have many blossoms in that megabloom and pollen from other nearby varieties can be transferred there by pollinators and can fertilize different blossoms,thus giving you one ugly fruit that has who knows what in terms of seeds in it.

In my experience many varieties form megablooms early in the season,especially the large pink PL varieties and then that stops and only single blossoms form.

Genetics?

https://www.google.com/search?q=How+...&bih=788&dpr=1

And Julia from PA says

http://www.bigpumpkins.com/msgboard/...?b=33&p=509534

Carolyn
__________________
Carolyn
carolyn137 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1 Week Ago   #3
Starlight
Tomatovillian™
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: AL
Posts: 1,966
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by carolyn137 View Post
You should never ever save seeds from a fruit that resulted from a megabloom and here's why.

You have many blossoms in that megabloom and pollen from other nearby varieties can be transferred there by pollinators and can fertilize different blossoms,thus giving you one ugly fruit that has who knows what in terms of seeds in it.

In my experience many varieties form megablooms early in the season,especially the large pink PL varieties and then that stops and only single blossoms form.

Genetics?

https://www.google.com/search?q=How+...&bih=788&dpr=1

And Julia from PA says

http://www.bigpumpkins.com/msgboard/...?b=33&p=509534

Carolyn
Many..many thanks Carolyn. I'm so glad I asked. I sure didn't want to mix the two and give folks some odd producing seed.

Thanks for the links too. The one from Pa_ Julie I see listed Mega Marv as one of those that does throw the megablooms. My megabloom Mega Marv weighed in at 14 ounces. Biggest tomato I ever held in my life. Besides one of the Mega Marv had one of the Dixie Golden Giant be a megabloom too.

After I spend a couple of days just enjoying looking at what I grew, I'll take them megabloom ones and make me some huge BLT's and just enjoy eating them seeds and all.

Thanks for the learning lesson.
Starlight is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1 Week Ago   #4
MissS
Tomatovillian™
 
MissS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Pewaukee, Wisconsin
Posts: 2,299
Default

Mega blooms are to some degree hereditary. They occur when the plants are young and the temperatures are cool. So, these are most times on a plants first few fruits. Some tomatoes varieties are more prone to having fruit with mega blooms than others. Fruits from mega blooms are what grow those giant tomatoes everyone loves.

Since these tomatoes are fused, it is possible for each section to have seeds from different pollen donors. It is also possible for a normal tomato to have seed from different donors in each of it's locales.

With that being said, I would think that it would be just fine to save seed from a fused tomato. Since these are early fruits, there is less chance of a bee cross pollinating the fruit. The bees are in short supply at this time of the year, so most pollination is done normally.

Some people choose to save seed from each tomato separately others like to mix several fruits seeds together. I myself like to mix them. That way, if there has been a cross it is more likely that the next seed out of the pack will be one that will grow true to form.
__________________
Patti
Zone 5
MissS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1 Week Ago   #5
carolyn137
Tomatoville® Moderator
 
carolyn137's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Upstate NY, zone 4b/5a
Posts: 19,673
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MissS View Post
Mega blooms are to some degree hereditary. They occur when the plants are young and the temperatures are cool. So, these are most times on a plants first few fruits. Some tomatoes varieties are more prone to having fruit with mega blooms than others. Fruits from mega blooms are what grow those giant tomatoes everyone loves.

Since these tomatoes are fused, it is possible for each section to have seeds from different pollen donors. It is also possible for a normal tomato to have seed from different donors in each of it's locales.

With that being said, I would think that it would be just fine to save seed from a fused tomato. Since these are early fruits, there is less chance of a bee cross pollinating the fruit. The bees are in short supply at this time of the year, so most pollination is done normally.

Some people choose to save seed from each tomato separately others like to mix several fruits seeds together. I myself like to mix them. That way, if there has been a cross it is more likely that the next seed out of the pack will be one that will grow true to form.
I'm glad to see that you essentially agreed with what I posted in the second post here with a couple of links to confirm what I posted.

Again, I would never save seeds from a fruit that resulted from a megabloom, ever. Yes, individual blossoms can also be cross pollinated,that's for sure, and that also depends on what your x pollination is,and I used to keep track of that when I was listing so many varieties in the SSE Yearbooks.Mine was about 5 % which means that on average,of seeds saved from about 100 different varieties about 5 will be X pollinated and it's also kown that even with X pollination,not all ovules in the tomato ovary will be cross pollinated,but why take the chance say I.

I remember reading a study where it was shown that taking all seeds that were fertilized in the ovary,then taken from the following fruit,there could be up to 5 different ones,meaning 5 different pollen donors.

Carolyn
__________________
Carolyn
carolyn137 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1 Week Ago   #6
Starlight
Tomatovillian™
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: AL
Posts: 1,966
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MissS View Post
Mega blooms are to some degree hereditary. They occur when the plants are young and the temperatures are cool. So, these are most times on a plants first few fruits. Some tomatoes varieties are more prone to having fruit with mega blooms than others. Fruits from mega blooms are what grow those giant tomatoes everyone loves.

Since these tomatoes are fused, it is possible for each section to have seeds from different pollen donors. It is also possible for a normal tomato to have seed from different donors in each of it's locales.

With that being said, I would think that it would be just fine to save seed from a fused tomato. Since these are early fruits, there is less chance of a bee cross pollinating the fruit. The bees are in short supply at this time of the year, so most pollination is done normally.

Some people choose to save seed from each tomato separately others like to mix several fruits seeds together. I myself like to mix them. That way, if there has been a cross it is more likely that the next seed out of the pack will be one that will grow true to form.
I had to stop and think, and the couple of megabloom tomatoes I got were the first tomatoes made. I don't put my tomatoes out til May 1st usually. This year was a few days later as we had all those never ending storms and flooding. Temps back then were in the low 70's and 50's at night.

I do like you do. I take all the ones I bagged that the same and mix them all in same container when fermenting. Once I know I have enough bagged tomatoes for trying to get purer seed, then I let the rest of the plant do whatever it wants. You can see some later tomatoes are definitely crosses and those ones then I will do separately. Those for sure crosses, I don't share. Those I keep and maybe one day I'll see what they develop into.



Quote:
Originally Posted by carolyn137 View Post
I'm glad to see that you essentially agreed with what I posted in the second post here with a couple of links to confirm what I posted.

Again, I would never save seeds from a fruit that resulted from a megabloom, ever. Yes, individual blossoms can also be cross pollinated,that's for sure, and that also depends on what your x pollination is,and I used to keep track of that when I was listing so many varieties in the SSE Yearbooks.Mine was about 5 % which means that on average,of seeds saved from about 100 different varieties about 5 will be X pollinated and it's also kown that even with X pollination,not all ovules in the tomato ovary will be cross pollinated,but why take the chance say I.

I remember reading a study where it was shown that taking all seeds that were fertilized in the ovary,then taken from the following fruit,there could be up to 5 different ones,meaning 5 different pollen donors.

Carolyn
Very interesting that study you read. I took a look around at the plants I know that have crossed and yep that about what I have 5% maybe a bit more as I probably did most of that pollinating when stringing branches up and being in and among the leaves and blossoms several times a day, plus with no bees other than the odd one, I shake my plants everyday and I know I have pollen all over me.

I got the cutiest Ernie's Plump that one of last tomatoes to develop and I can see where it crossed with Oaxacan Jewel.

I been most all day, destroying plants. My neighbor asked what I was doing. Told her because of hornworms I been picking anything that blushing and that been bagged and hopefully true to seed and destroying the rest few left on vines as most of them may be crossed all the way. I don't keep plants going during hot summer months and mass humidity for last two or three tomatoes on vine. Too much work and waste of water during drought season.

After keeping bagged ones for me for seed, the rest go to feed folks who hungry and are not seed savers. They just want fresh food and appreciate anything they get. One of my goals is to get more folks to try and grow some of the older type heirlooms. It can be done down here.

I'll keep one or two for eating, that I liked even if it crossed, but my season more or less done. I must say it been a pure joy to grow all these new to me heirlooms. Challenging at times but lots of learning lessons and I can't wait to start on next year. Lots more heirloom tomatoes to try and grow. More tomatoes to try than I probably got years left, but gonna give it my best shot.
Starlight is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1 Day Ago   #7
imp
Tomatovillian™
 
imp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Texas Tigger Shark on the prowl
Posts: 2,444
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Starlight View Post
You can see some later tomatoes are definitely crosses and those ones then I will do separately. Those for sure crosses, I don't share. Those I keep and maybe one day I'll see what they develop into.
Tomatoes will not show they are crossed the year it happens, they throw the different fruit next year. Corn is the only one that shows a cross in this years production, though there may be others, but not tomatoes.
imp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1 Day Ago   #8
MissS
Tomatovillian™
 
MissS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Pewaukee, Wisconsin
Posts: 2,299
Default

I agree with imp. You can not know if a fruit was cross pollinated by looking at it. You have to wait until the next year and grow out the seeds. Even those people that purposely cross pollinate their plants will not know if it worked until the following year. Any difference in the fruits that you are seeing is from the growing conditions that the plant was experiencing while the fruits were growing.
__________________
Patti
Zone 5
MissS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21 Hours Ago   #9
Starlight
Tomatovillian™
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: AL
Posts: 1,966
Default

Thanks for that information Imp and MissS. I had a couple of weird looking shapes on one plant and figured it may have gotten pollinated from another plant from the wind.
Starlight is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:47 AM.


★ Tomatoville® is a registered trademark of Commerce Holdings, LLC ★ All Content ©2017 Commerce Holdings, LLC ★