Keeping Mycorrhizae Alive? Do's and Dont's?

cgs · August 5, 2011

Doing some research here on Tomatoville... I fear I have been killing my Mycorrhizae or certainly not letting them develop to potential. Here are some issues I am aware of below. Are there more?

1. P>4 in N-P-K. I understand they don't like a phosphate number over 4. That this isn't a firm rule, but that they don't like triple superphosphate.

2. Using tap water with chlorine isn't good for them?

3. Seems Daconcil (anti-fungal) applications would be bad. Perhaps Actinovate foliar app in place of?

I would like to know if there are more dos and don'ts and even if my above concerns are valid. I am considering using Actino-Iron, Azos and BiotaMAx - is anyone aware of the same or different issues with those?

fortyonenorth · August 5, 2011

You're right that Mycos do not thrive in a high-P environment. However, the P number on your fertilizer is relative because it depends on: 1) how much fert you apply, e.g. 1 oz. of 5-10-5 is equal to 1/2 oz. of 10-20-10; and 2) the current P levels in your soil, meaning if you already have luxury levels of Phosphorus it may not take any additional application of P to suppress the Mycos.

I've seen conflicting info about Daconil but, yes, it seems common sense that an "anti-fungal" agent would be counterproductive. That said, Daconil is applied to the foliage whereas others that you mention (like Actinovate) are applied as a soil drench. In the heat of a mid-summer's battle against foliage disease, fostering your Myco-herd is going to be the least of your worries.

Daconil, while not organic, is the most effective weapon in a combat situation.

TZ-OH6 · August 5, 2011

Daconil binds onto leaf receptor cites, blocking them from the fungus. AFAIK, it is not poisonous to fungi the way organic copper fungicides are.

cgs · August 5, 2011

Looking at threads here, it appears mycorrhizae is important early, and may be adversely affected by trichoderma... so it might make sense to let mycorrhizae establish for a few weeks before applying trichoderma? I wouldn't say anything I found was conclusive on this, but some hints.

Thank you for your responses. I take away that I will continue a Daconcil weekly preventative Daconcil regimen - unless someone strongly objects.
I'm not trying to reinvent the wheel here, but would like to know do's/don'ts that I might not have uncovered in my searches. I really appreciate all the posts and links on these topics. I also look forward to further trial results from Ray and others.

amideutch · August 5, 2011

http://www.mycorrhizae.com/wp-conten...ngi-03-114.pdf

Here's a link that should help. Actinovate is used BOTH as a foliar and soil drench. If your growing in raised beds where you have applied myco's before you might consider the "No Till" method. This is the second year I have not tilled my raised bed and this is the best I have seen my plants since starting the bed 5 year's ago.

Actino-iron is for use in the soil only, use only Actinovate for foliar applications. Azos and Biota Max is a good team as they both contain bacteria that enhances nitrogen uptake of the plant.

I have had good results with Actinovate, EXEL LG (Agri-fos) and azoxystrobin applied as a foliar. Actinovate and EXEL LG used together and Azoxystrobin used alone applied 2-3 times during the course of the season.

One of the attributes of Mycorrhiza is being able to unlock phosphates bound in the soil and making it available to the plant. So unless your growing medium is totally void of phosphate the recommendation of a P less than 4 will supply all the phosphate the plant needs. Organic ferts with a higher P should be OK as they release the ferts at a reduced rate which the myco's can handle.

Depending on airborne fungal disease severity, it should be taken into consideration whether to use Daconil or not if you want to be as organic as possible. Some places on the east coast are so bad that the Actinovate/Exel LG combination may not be able to contain the fungus. Azoxystrobin I don't know as to the lack of availability to back yard gardeners. So for heavily infected area's you might want to go with Daconil. Only you the gardener will know from experience what will work or not for you local area. Ami

August 5, 2011	#1
cgs Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 59	Keeping Mycorrhizae Alive? Do's and Dont's? Doing some research here on Tomatoville... I fear I have been killing my Mycorrhizae or certainly not letting them develop to potential. Here are some issues I am aware of below. Are there more? 1. P>4 in N-P-K. I understand they don't like a phosphate number over 4. That this isn't a firm rule, but that they don't like triple superphosphate. 2. Using tap water with chlorine isn't good for them? 3. Seems Daconcil (anti-fungal) applications would be bad. Perhaps Actinovate foliar app in place of? I would like to know if there are more dos and don'ts and even if my above concerns are valid. I am considering using Actino-Iron, Azos and BiotaMAx - is anyone aware of the same or different issues with those?

August 5, 2011	#4
cgs Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 59	another do/don't Looking at threads here, it appears mycorrhizae is important early, and may be adversely affected by trichoderma... so it might make sense to let mycorrhizae establish for a few weeks before applying trichoderma? I wouldn't say anything I found was conclusive on this, but some hints. Thank you for your responses. I take away that I will continue a Daconcil weekly preventative Daconcil regimen - unless someone strongly objects. I'm not trying to reinvent the wheel here, but would like to know do's/don'ts that I might not have uncovered in my searches. I really appreciate all the posts and links on these topics. I also look forward to further trial results from Ray and others.

August 5, 2011	#5
amideutch Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Germany 49°26"N 07°36"E Posts: 5,041	http://www.mycorrhizae.com/wp-conten...ngi-03-114.pdf Here's a link that should help. Actinovate is used BOTH as a foliar and soil drench. If your growing in raised beds where you have applied myco's before you might consider the "No Till" method. This is the second year I have not tilled my raised bed and this is the best I have seen my plants since starting the bed 5 year's ago. Actino-iron is for use in the soil only, use only Actinovate for foliar applications. Azos and Biota Max is a good team as they both contain bacteria that enhances nitrogen uptake of the plant. I have had good results with Actinovate, EXEL LG (Agri-fos) and azoxystrobin applied as a foliar. Actinovate and EXEL LG used together and Azoxystrobin used alone applied 2-3 times during the course of the season. One of the attributes of Mycorrhiza is being able to unlock phosphates bound in the soil and making it available to the plant. So unless your growing medium is totally void of phosphate the recommendation of a P less than 4 will supply all the phosphate the plant needs. Organic ferts with a higher P should be OK as they release the ferts at a reduced rate which the myco's can handle. Depending on airborne fungal disease severity, it should be taken into consideration whether to use Daconil or not if you want to be as organic as possible. Some places on the east coast are so bad that the Actinovate/Exel LG combination may not be able to contain the fungus. Azoxystrobin I don't know as to the lack of availability to back yard gardeners. So for heavily infected area's you might want to go with Daconil. Only you the gardener will know from experience what will work or not for you local area. Ami __________________ Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting ‘...Holy Crap .....What a ride!'

August 5, 2011	#2
fortyonenorth Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: NW Indiana Posts: 1,150	You're right that Mycos do not thrive in a high-P environment. However, the P number on your fertilizer is relative because it depends on: 1) how much fert you apply, e.g. 1 oz. of 5-10-5 is equal to 1/2 oz. of 10-20-10; and 2) the current P levels in your soil, meaning if you already have luxury levels of Phosphorus it may not take any additional application of P to suppress the Mycos. I've seen conflicting info about Daconil but, yes, it seems common sense that an "anti-fungal" agent would be counterproductive. That said, Daconil is applied to the foliage whereas others that you mention (like Actinovate) are applied as a soil drench. In the heat of a mid-summer's battle against foliage disease, fostering your Myco-herd is going to be the least of your worries. Daconil, while not organic, is the most effective weapon in a combat situation.

August 5, 2011	#3
TZ-OH6 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Mid-Ohio Posts: 847	Daconil binds onto leaf receptor cites, blocking them from the fungus. AFAIK, it is not poisonous to fungi the way organic copper fungicides are.