seed saving question

DonnaMarieNJ · April 11, 2014

Last year was the first time I saved seeds. I followed the rules, I think, but this year, the seeds are not germinating.

I remember last year that with some seeds the "scum" never developed. So, I waited. Maybe I waited too long?

What do you do with the seeds in the cup that do not ferment? Just skip to the next step? Start again?

TIA

Donna

beeman · April 11, 2014

Quote:

Originally Posted by DonnaMarieNJ

What do you do with the seeds in the cup that do not ferment? Just skip to the next step? Start again?
TIA Donna

I have the same problem, saved seed as suggested from two plants. One early season, one late season.
The early season seeds will not germinate, but the later ones do. I did post a question but didn't get any replies. Lets hope you will be more successful.

Chucker · April 11, 2014

I can't say that my method is absolutely correct, but my seeds always germinate fine, so I will post what I do in case it helps. Most of these steps were taken from a post by Tom Wagner a while back, and may not be exactly the same as what he does, but I think it's pretty close.

1. Let the tomato that you want to save seeds from ripen on the vine. I think this gives you a better chance at mature seeds than if you let the tomato ripen on the counter.

2. After removing the seeds from the container, soak in water that has 10% TSP (wall cleaner from the hardware store) for 15 minutes. The water I use is about 100 degree F. This step gets rid of the gel.

3. Rinse very well in a strainer under cold water

4. Soak the seeds in water with a 10% bleach solution for 15 minutes. Again the water is about 100 degrees F. This step gets rid of disease on the outside of the seed.

5. Rinse very well in a strainer under cold water.

6. Dry on coffee filters for a week or so (spread the seeds out so they are not clumped together) .

7. Store in glass vials in a cool dark place.

I have never tried the fermentation method. I'm sure it works equally well, but it seems like a lot of variables and extra effort to me.

When I'm really lazy, I've just saved the seeds directly out of the tomato on coffee filters without and cleaning or rinsing. This works well too, but you have a higher chance of disease, so don't share seeds if you do this.

feldon30 · April 11, 2014

I know that seed saving with fermentation is a process that is near and dear to many hearts, but I just find it too unpredictable and depressing when someone counts on these seeds and they don't germinate.

I save seeds with Oxiclean and it's a 30 minute process plus a week's drying time...
http://www.settfest.com/2009/01/saving-seeds/

Or you can use Tom Wagner's technique as described above by Chucker.

ContainerTed · April 12, 2014

There's been way too much emphasis placed on forming a fungus mat. The fungus comes from your environment and "just maybe" your local resident fungus doesn't like to form that mat. I made this for beginners. Note the object is to remove the gel and gel sac and then dry the seeds. Hope this might answer some of your questions about how to do fermentation.

The primary goal of fermentation is to get the seeds out of those sacs and dissolve the gel. Once that has been done, it's time to rinse and dry them. The bleach rinse is optional.

http://t.tatianastomatobase.com/wiki...g_Fermentation

DonnaMarieNJ · April 12, 2014

I DID have success with 3/4 of the seeds that I saved. However, I do remember that no scum was forming on several cups. It was my first time, so I waited, and waited. Maybe two weeks went by, so I just rinsed, dried, and stored them.

I'm *guessing* that the seeds that didn't ferment were the seeds that didn't germinate. But I honestly do not remember. As it is, I am testing the non-germinating seeds now using the wet paper towel method.

Should I have just thrown them out? I'll look into the other methods suggested for this year's crop!

Thanks for everyone's help.

Donna

ContainerTed · April 13, 2014

Throw them out??? You're the only one who can answer that. Doing the germination testing is a really good way to make that decision. It'll let you decide whether or not YOU are willing to go to the time and trouble and possibly indecision they will require. If they germinate at all, AND, they are the only ones of that variety I have or can get, then I might keep a few to work with until I can get "reliable" stock.

It's your time and.....so forth....., and that makes it your call.

I shake my little jars of fermentating seeds at least once a day to see if the gel and sacs are gone. I don't think I've let a jar go more than 6 or 7 days. If I'm not happy with the mixture after that time, I do a scrub job with some Comet or other scouring powder. That also counts for the bleach rinse. Then, they are rinsed, dried, and stored.

b54red · April 20, 2014

The fermentation takes place much quicker if the temperatures are not too cold. I find fermenting seed in the fall requires bringing them in where it is warmer to get quick fermentation. The problem with leaving them in the jar too long waiting to ferment is they can sprout which I have had happen when I forgot a batch for too long. After 3 or 4 days I check to see if the gel is dissolving by shaking or stirring a bit and if many seeds fall to the bottom of the container they are nearly done. I usually don't wait past 6 days but sometimes I will if it is a bit cooler; but if you wait too long you can end up with a lot of seed that are starting to sprout.

I like the fermentation process for saving seed and have only messed up a very few batches and it was always my fault for forgetting them or using green fruit. After the fermentation has taken place and the seeds are cleaned I do soak them for a minute or so in a diluted bleach solution and then rinse well before drying and storing. I don't know if the last process makes any difference or not but the seeds do look a bit nicer.

Bill

RebelRidin · April 20, 2014

Quote:

Originally Posted by DonnaMarieNJ

Last year was the first time I saved seeds. I followed the rules, I think, but this year, the seeds are not germinating.

I remember last year that with some seeds the "scum" never developed. So, I waited. Maybe I waited too long?

What do you do with the seeds in the cup that do not ferment? Just skip to the next step? Start again?

TIA

Donna

I don't pay any attention to scum or fungus mats or any such thing. I use small clear drinking glasses, add seeds and pulp, some water and cover loosely with saran wrap. I swirl them once a day. I keep them indoors to ferment. After six to seven days the seeds will mostly sink to the bottom very easily after swirling. I rinse and clean using a fine mesh wire strainer and the sprayer at the kitchen sink. Dry on paper towels for a week and that's it.

No need to wait for a scum or fungus mat to form. So long as the gel sac is gone (mostly doesn't have to be perfect) and you don't forget and leave them too long (when I forget and leave an extra week they turn dark) you've done your job

DonnaMarieNJ · April 21, 2014

Thank you!

joseph · April 21, 2014

Last fall, I chopped up some tomatoes to ferment. And put them in the garage, and left them. And forgot about them. Whenever I found them again I didn't want to clean up the mess. So I left them longer, and longer, and longer. Finally, after 5 months I decided that I might as well clean and dry the seed. When I did a germination test on the first batch it was 100%. I haven't tried the rest yet but will get that done soon.

Sodak · April 22, 2014

Quote:

Originally Posted by joseph

Last fall, I chopped up some tomatoes to ferment. And put them in the garage, and left them. And forgot about them. Whenever I found them again I didn't want to clean up the mess. So I left them longer, and longer, and longer. Finally, after 5 months I decided that I might as well clean and dry the seed. When I did a germination test on the first batch it was 100%. I haven't tried the rest yet but will get that done soon.

WOW! that sounds easy.

April 11, 2014	#1
DonnaMarieNJ Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Northeast New Jersey Posts: 726	seed saving question Last year was the first time I saved seeds. I followed the rules, I think, but this year, the seeds are not germinating. I remember last year that with some seeds the "scum" never developed. So, I waited. Maybe I waited too long? What do you do with the seeds in the cup that do not ferment? Just skip to the next step? Start again? TIA Donna __________________ DonnaMarieNJ I pay the mortgage, but my cats own the house!

April 11, 2014	#3
Chucker Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Illinois Posts: 180	I can't say that my method is absolutely correct, but my seeds always germinate fine, so I will post what I do in case it helps. Most of these steps were taken from a post by Tom Wagner a while back, and may not be exactly the same as what he does, but I think it's pretty close. 1. Let the tomato that you want to save seeds from ripen on the vine. I think this gives you a better chance at mature seeds than if you let the tomato ripen on the counter. 2. After removing the seeds from the container, soak in water that has 10% TSP (wall cleaner from the hardware store) for 15 minutes. The water I use is about 100 degree F. This step gets rid of the gel. 3. Rinse very well in a strainer under cold water 4. Soak the seeds in water with a 10% bleach solution for 15 minutes. Again the water is about 100 degrees F. This step gets rid of disease on the outside of the seed. 5. Rinse very well in a strainer under cold water. 6. Dry on coffee filters for a week or so (spread the seeds out so they are not clumped together) . 7. Store in glass vials in a cool dark place. I have never tried the fermentation method. I'm sure it works equally well, but it seems like a lot of variables and extra effort to me. When I'm really lazy, I've just saved the seeds directly out of the tomato on coffee filters without and cleaning or rinsing. This works well too, but you have a higher chance of disease, so don't share seeds if you do this. Last edited by Chucker; April 11, 2014 at 05:51 PM.

April 11, 2014	#4
feldon30 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: May 2006 Location: Rock Hill, SC Posts: 5,346	I know that seed saving with fermentation is a process that is near and dear to many hearts, but I just find it too unpredictable and depressing when someone counts on these seeds and they don't germinate. I save seeds with Oxiclean and it's a 30 minute process plus a week's drying time... http://www.settfest.com/2009/01/saving-seeds/ Or you can use Tom Wagner's technique as described above by Chucker. __________________ [SIZE="3"]I've relaunched my gardening website -- [B]TheUnconventionalTomato.com[/B][/SIZE] * [I][SIZE="1"]*I'm not allowed to post weblinks so you'll have to copy-paste it manually.[/SIZE][/I]

April 12, 2014	#5
ContainerTed Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: 6a - NE Tennessee Posts: 4,538	There's been way too much emphasis placed on forming a fungus mat. The fungus comes from your environment and "just maybe" your local resident fungus doesn't like to form that mat. I made this for beginners. Note the object is to remove the gel and gel sac and then dry the seeds. Hope this might answer some of your questions about how to do fermentation. The primary goal of fermentation is to get the seeds out of those sacs and dissolve the gel. Once that has been done, it's time to rinse and dry them. The bleach rinse is optional. http://t.tatianastomatobase.com/wiki...g_Fermentation __________________ Ted ________________________ Owner & Sole Operator Of The Muddy Bucket Farm and Tomato Ranch

April 12, 2014	#6
DonnaMarieNJ Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Northeast New Jersey Posts: 726	I DID have success with 3/4 of the seeds that I saved. However, I do remember that no scum was forming on several cups. It was my first time, so I waited, and waited. Maybe two weeks went by, so I just rinsed, dried, and stored them. I'm guessing that the seeds that didn't ferment were the seeds that didn't germinate. But I honestly do not remember. As it is, I am testing the non-germinating seeds now using the wet paper towel method. Should I have just thrown them out? I'll look into the other methods suggested for this year's crop! Thanks for everyone's help. Donna __________________ DonnaMarieNJ I pay the mortgage, but my cats own the house!

April 13, 2014	#7
ContainerTed Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: 6a - NE Tennessee Posts: 4,538	Throw them out??? You're the only one who can answer that. Doing the germination testing is a really good way to make that decision. It'll let you decide whether or not YOU are willing to go to the time and trouble and possibly indecision they will require. If they germinate at all, AND, they are the only ones of that variety I have or can get, then I might keep a few to work with until I can get "reliable" stock. It's your time and.....so forth....., and that makes it your call. I shake my little jars of fermentating seeds at least once a day to see if the gel and sacs are gone. I don't think I've let a jar go more than 6 or 7 days. If I'm not happy with the mixture after that time, I do a scrub job with some Comet or other scouring powder. That also counts for the bleach rinse. Then, they are rinsed, dried, and stored. __________________ Ted ________________________ Owner & Sole Operator Of The Muddy Bucket Farm and Tomato Ranch

April 20, 2014	#8
b54red Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Alabama Posts: 7,068	The fermentation takes place much quicker if the temperatures are not too cold. I find fermenting seed in the fall requires bringing them in where it is warmer to get quick fermentation. The problem with leaving them in the jar too long waiting to ferment is they can sprout which I have had happen when I forgot a batch for too long. After 3 or 4 days I check to see if the gel is dissolving by shaking or stirring a bit and if many seeds fall to the bottom of the container they are nearly done. I usually don't wait past 6 days but sometimes I will if it is a bit cooler; but if you wait too long you can end up with a lot of seed that are starting to sprout. I like the fermentation process for saving seed and have only messed up a very few batches and it was always my fault for forgetting them or using green fruit. After the fermentation has taken place and the seeds are cleaned I do soak them for a minute or so in a diluted bleach solution and then rinse well before drying and storing. I don't know if the last process makes any difference or not but the seeds do look a bit nicer. Bill

April 21, 2014	#10
DonnaMarieNJ Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Northeast New Jersey Posts: 726	Thank you! __________________ DonnaMarieNJ I pay the mortgage, but my cats own the house!

April 21, 2014	#11
joseph Tomatovillian™ Join Date: May 2013 Location: Cache Valley, N/E of The Great Salt Lake Posts: 1,244	Last fall, I chopped up some tomatoes to ferment. And put them in the garage, and left them. And forgot about them. Whenever I found them again I didn't want to clean up the mess. So I left them longer, and longer, and longer. Finally, after 5 months I decided that I might as well clean and dry the seed. When I did a germination test on the first batch it was 100%. I haven't tried the rest yet but will get that done soon.