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Old February 25, 2021   #1
loeb
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Default Seedlings from old seeds

Hello all I have sown some old seeds I have to check if they are still able to grow, and got something odd with Chile Verde - 1 plant seems normal and the other one have a pair of first leafs and the third one growing, but its extremally small, slow and colour is different..(both sprouted in similar time, maybe few days apart) I thought that its a problem with the soil and added some fertilizer, but it changed nothing.. What can that be, a sign of a disease? Weakness of seedling? Alien seed ? Looks like this:
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Old February 25, 2021   #2
KarenO
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Hello, it’s difficult to see for sure from the photo but I don’t see a normal growing point on that tomato and the leaves are an odd shape. It seems to me that it may be a “ blind” seedling which won’t develop properly
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Old February 25, 2021   #3
rxkeith
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yeah, thats what it looks like to me too.


if you do get any growth coming from the first joint, it will take awhile, and
won't be much to speak of. i have had the occasional seedling like yours that
never put out any additional growth. the existing leaves got bigger, but that
was all. give it some time if you like, but don't expect much.




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Old February 26, 2021   #4
loeb
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OK thank you both, I though that its not a blind one, because there is a third leaf, but maybe it is. I will observe it.
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Old February 28, 2021   #5
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I started some 3 year old seeds, just to see if they would germinate. They were freebies (Marglobe) that came with ones I ordered (Delicious) but never got planted. I wanted to see if they were still viable, because I would like to plant the ones I ordered. So I did the wet paper towel method, and only one seed germinated, 3 days after starting them. So I potted it up and thought for sure it would be up in a couple days.

NOTHING. After 3 days I figured it died, so I poked around in the dirt expecting to find the withered remains of it. Lo and behold, it was alive and growing, but hadn't broke the surface of the potting mix yet. I noticed it had lost the radicle though, and had what appeared to be a few real fine roots growing out of the edges of the stem. I figured it was a goner, but reset it in the soil anyway. After a couple days, it was still alive but had it's helmet on, and I was certain that was going to kill it. So I gently squeezed the edges of the seed coat with a fine tweezers, and it cracked so I was able to remove it.

The cotyledons were well curled up, but I figured they would straighten out by the next day. NOPE, stayed curled up and don't even look like cotyledons. It reminds me of a fiddle head fern. The stem has gotten longer, and it appears it may have opened up ever so slightly. It also has little tiny nubs on the stem just below the cotyledons, that resemble adventitious root beginnings. And, the tip of the cotyledons looks a little yellow.

It's the queerest thing I've ever seen. I think it's a mutant mater. I wasn't even going to keep this plant going after germination. My only aim was to test the viability of the 3 year old seeds. But now after all this craziness, I have to grow it out to see what the outcome is. So I'm carefully tending to it to keep it alive. It's day 11 since I put it in the paper towels, and it has been very slow going since it got a radicle after 3 days. By now it should be taller and have it's first true leaves.

If I had to guess, I think it had the beginnings of roots forming, and then the radicle broke off. I believe the radicle is what takes up the bulk of the water in the beginning until roots are established. So maybe it's just slowed way down because it lost the radicle and has been sucking all it's moisture through those tiny hair like roots that were not even a 1/2 cm long. The first pic is from 4 to 5 days ago, and the second one is today. The second one appears to be about double the size of the first. But it's only a couple cm's longer, because I took that pic from closer up. Sorry I don't know why the pics are sideways, or how to fix that.

Has anyone ever seen anything like this? It's nuts!
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Old February 28, 2021   #6
loeb
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Cotyledons ale not spreading because they have dry edges sticking one to another.. 3 year old tomato seeds are quite fresh to me That strange seedling above is from seeds that are 10+ [more like 15 years old], I though it would be good to practise before sowing old Carolyn seeds that I am waiting for. Anyway, I would try cutting those yellow tips and spray it a bit with water, then gently separate the cotyledons [but not spreading them - just separating gently] that should help them spread. I think 3 days was not long at all, they probably would sprout well left alone Sometimes "helping" is actually makes things harder..

It seems that mine is not blind, just strange.. I can see another little growth tip between those leafs, so I am a bit excited - maybe it will be a nice oddity? Or just "slow" seedling but normal.. Anyway it got a name - I have called it Odd-in ;P
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Old March 1, 2021   #7
Shapshftr
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Quote:
Originally Posted by loeb View Post
Cotyledons ale not spreading because they have dry edges sticking one to another.. 3 year old tomato seeds are quite fresh to me That strange seedling above is from seeds that are 10+ [more like 15 years old], I though it would be good to practise before sowing old Carolyn seeds that I am waiting for. Anyway, I would try cutting those yellow tips and spray it a bit with water, then gently separate the cotyledons [but not spreading them - just separating gently] that should help them spread. I think 3 days was not long at all, they probably would sprout well left alone Sometimes "helping" is actually makes things harder..

It seems that mine is not blind, just strange.. I can see another little growth tip between those leafs, so I am a bit excited - maybe it will be a nice oddity? Or just "slow" seedling but normal.. Anyway it got a name - I have called it Odd-in ;P
I know 3 year old seeds aren't that old, but I always assume that any seeds they give away are already old, and that's why they give them away. And I wasn't referring to the germination time of 3 days being long, that was quick. It's the time since then, 12 days now. I've had seeds come up in potting mix in 3 days and the cotyledons are fully formed on them.

But the tips are not dry, they are just a tad yellow. Also I have been keeping them wet, and it doesn't change anything. The only reason they are stuck like that is because they were so tightly wound and are not unwinding. My guess is that the cotyledons plump up and unwind from water intake, sort of like blowing up a balloon. But without a radicle, it's just barely getting any water intake.

I was intending to stick a needle between the cotyledons to separate them, but was waiting until the seedling gets a little better rooted before I try manipulating it. Just doing that could lift it right out of the soil with almost zero rooting to hold it. On top of that, this thing is so tiny that even with my glasses on I can barely see the top on it. I have to use my phone in camera mode with it on zoom, just to get a good look at it.

As for your seedlings, I honestly can't say. The small yellow one looks like it's not doing photosynthesis very well, but that could improve with time. I think you will soon get another set of leaves out of the center, but at that small stage it' too small to see. I'm more curious about the one with the curled under leaves. That doesn't look right to me.
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Old March 1, 2021   #8
loeb
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Do you mean those on the left? Those are dwarfs and they look as they are supposed to Whose yellow leafs were green at a beginning.. but there is a third leaf, just small, looks kind of like a potato leaf.. I have placed it today in another soil so it will have a better conditions to grow, hopefully.

In your seedling that yellow tips - its something I was getting in the future when I was "helping" some seedlings to get rid of the seed husk. Some of those tips went green but some just stuck at the yellow underdeveloped phase so I started cutting them off - and then the whole cotyledon [a bit shorter] could develop better. So what part I was mentioning as dry - was not those yellow tips but the edges of a cotyledon, at least it looks like this in a photo, maybe I'm wrong because its so tiny..
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Old March 1, 2021   #9
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Originally Posted by loeb View Post
Do you mean those on the left? Those are dwarfs and they look as they are supposed to Whose yellow leafs were green at a beginning.. but there is a third leaf, just small, looks kind of like a potato leaf.. I have placed it today in another soil so it will have a better conditions to grow, hopefully.

In your seedling that yellow tips - its something I was getting in the future when I was "helping" some seedlings to get rid of the seed husk. Some of those tips went green but some just stuck at the yellow underdeveloped phase so I started cutting them off - and then the whole cotyledon [a bit shorter] could develop better. So what part I was mentioning as dry - was not those yellow tips but the edges of a cotyledon, at least it looks like this in a photo, maybe I'm wrong because its so tiny..
I never grew dwarfs, so that is new info to me, but good to know that plant is ok. It has a real good healthy color too. I don't understand why that small plant is yellow, since it's in the same pot as the others that look so healthy.

I think maybe the whole problem with mine was "helping" remove the seed coat. It appeared the cotyledons were crimped, probably from the light squeeze I gave the seed coat. And the crimp apparently stopped the water uptake by the cots, so they never expanded. It was more apparent today, when I could see the cots were separated more at the base, and it appeared there was the beginning of small true leaves. So I gently poked the tip of a needle between them, and the whole thing beyond that crimp just popped off. So now it just has 2 little stumps of cotyledons. It's still alive, but without the food source that cots provide, it will need to start taking up nutrients from the soil.
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Old March 1, 2021   #10
Hillbillygardner
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I started some Mozark seeds given to me by Dave that were 8-10 years old procured from Double helix Farms originally. I got 1 to germinate out of 6 and although i was tempted to “help” the little guy straining with the seed coat, i left it alone and after 3 days was standing straight and now has true leaves!
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Old March 1, 2021   #11
Shapshftr
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Originally Posted by Hillbillygardner View Post
I started some Mozark seeds given to me by Dave that were 8-10 years old procured from Double helix Farms originally. I got 1 to germinate out of 6 and although i was tempted to “help” the little guy straining with the seed coat, i left it alone and after 3 days was standing straight and now has true leaves!
That's great. But every time I left them to manage on their own, they died inside the seed coats. Even when I kept them moist, they never busted out.
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Old March 4, 2021   #12
loeb
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A little update: looks like mine is not blind, just the shape of leaf is strange. Its not a Chile Verde for sure. I love gardening partially because of that kind of suprises xD Also some of old pea sprouted sooo I'm happy
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Old March 7, 2021   #13
Shapshftr
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Quote:
Originally Posted by loeb View Post
A little update: looks like mine is not blind, just the shape of leaf is strange. Its not a Chile Verde for sure. I love gardening partially because of that kind of suprises xD Also some of old pea sprouted sooo I'm happy
Are you sure that's not a potato leaf variety? And am I seeing things or are the bottom set of true leaves rounded? At least you're getting results with old seeds. That's something to be thankful for.
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Old March 13, 2021   #14
tryno12
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had a bunch like that this year - all micro dwarfs - some seeds 4+ years, some last year I saved(Vilma, Venus, Jocholas, and Pinocchio) that had 2 cotyledons but only 1 true second leaf?? They all damped off and died - the others are still trying?? Seems like old seed on the others, but my saved seeds from last year I can't figure .....
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Old 1 Week Ago   #15
loeb
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Mine is growing nicely
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