SC, GA, MS, AL, TX, NC.....

[Blueaussi]

Blueaussi, the fungi that is used in Actinovate (Streptomyces Lydicus WYEC 108)

Streptomyces lydicus is a bacteria, not a fungus.

http://www.epa.gov/opp00001/biopesti...eet_006327.htm

How does it know which fungi are the bad guys and which are the good guys? Streptomycin, made from the bacteria Streptomyces griseus has been used for bacterial and fungal control , too, although I don't think it is naturally occurring in soil like Streptomyces lydicus apparently is.

[amideutch]

Excuse me, Bacteria. So what's the point! I thought the question was why use myco's when using Actinovate. Ami

[Blueaussi]

Streptomyces lydicus kills fungi. It colonizes the root tips of plants and kills fungi by both parasitizing them and producing an antibiotic. It's target is root decay fungi, but nothing I can google on it says it has no effect on what we, the gardeners, would consider beneficial fungi. I have access to more journals at work, but since you present yourself as an expert, I thought I would ask. I've already spent a fair amount of money on other products that add beneficial fungi to the soil, and I have concerns about adding something that might kill all those pricey fungi.

*That* would be the point.

I have concerns about glomming something on that produces an antibiotic in the soil, but I'll certainly address that else web.

[chalstonsc]

Ami: Thanks for the info....think I've got it. One more question: What organic insecticides can you suggest, specifically for flea beetles?

Ami and Blueaussi: Think I follow what you are exploring together...I'll be looking forward to reading more....thanks to you both!

[dice]

[Will Actinovate disable mycorrhizae?]

That same question occured to me in this thread here:
http://www.tomatoville.com/showthrea...ate#post123737

[amideutch]

I am NOT an EXPERT nor do I portray myself as one on the subject or claim to be one. I pass on what experiences I have had with Mycorrhizae and Actinovate and what little I have learned on line and from correspondence from experts. Here is one such correspondence from Thomas Giannou from T&J enterprises.

Strecptomyces lydicus would be at home with both BioVam and our Microbe tea product. In fact, it looks like it would make a good addition to both of those products. Thank's for bringing it to my attention.

Best Regards,
Thomas Giannou
http://www.tandjenterprises.com

It seems that actinomycetes (Streptomyces sp.) are also capable of oxidizing Sulfur. Another quote from the (Handbook of Microbial Biofertilizers) says,:
"The ability of the root systems to establish symbiotic relationships with some of the soil microorganisms (bacteria, actinomycetes, and fungi) of the rhizophere represents one of the most successful strategies that land plants have developed to survive, with abiotic and biotic stresses imposed during colonization of terrestrial ecosystems".

As far as pricey fungi, maybe you should shop around.

MycoGrow™ Soluble
for Potting Soils & Rooting Media
MycoGrow™ Soluble is similar to Plant Success™ Tabs but is more concentrated, containing more spores and more species, plus other beneficial organisms. Consisting of powdered spore mass rather than tablets, MycoGrow™ Soluble is great for adding to rooting media or commercial potting soils. Sold in one pound and one ounce increments. An ounce is sufficient to treat 125–250 plants covering approximately 250 square feet.
One ounce MGS100 $5.95 Buy
One pound MGS110 $79.95 Buy
Note: this product cannot be shipped to Hawaii.

Contains concentrated spore mass of the following:
Endomycorrhizal fungi Glomus intraradices, Glomus mosseae, Glomus aggregatum, Glomus clarum, Glomus deserticola, Glomus etunicatum, Gigaspora margarita, Gigaspora brasilianum, Gigaspora monosporum
Ectomycorrhizal fungi Rhizopogon villosullus, Rhizopogon luteolus, Rhizopogon amylopogon, Rhizopogon fulvigleba, Pisolithus tinctorius, Laccaria bicolor, Laccaria laccata, Scleroderma cepa, Scleroderma citrinum, Suillus granulatas, Suillus punctatapies
Trichoderma Trichoderma harzianum, Trichoderma konigii
Beneficial Bacteria Bacillus subtillus, Bacillus licheniformis, Bacillus azotoformans, Bacillus megaterium, Bacillus coagulans, Bacillus pumlis, Bacillus thuringiensis, Bacillus stearothermiphilis, Paenibacillus polymyxa, Paenibacillus durum, Paenibacillus florescence, Paenibacillus gordonae, Azotobacter polymyxa, Azotobacter chroococcum, Sacchromyces cervisiae, Streptomyces griseues, Streptomyces lydicus, Pseudomonas aureofaceans, Deinococcus erythromyxa

And if you look at the ingredients closely MycoGrow soluble has Streptomyces lydicus in it. I'm sure it isn't the same strain as Actinovate but Streptomyces lydicus none the less. And at $5.95 an ounce which is capable of treating 125-250 plants I would call that a bargain.

This year I used both MycoGrow soluble from Fungi Perfecti and BioVam from T&J Enterprises in addition to Actinovate. How much you want to invest in your garden is up to you. For me the price is small concerning the amount of time I have put into obtaining the seed, growing plants from the seed and my desire to grow the best tomatoes possible. These products help make that happen and they are organic. I guess it boils down to how valuable your time is to you. Ami

[amideutch]

Ami: Thanks for the info....think I've got it. One more question: What organic insecticides can you suggest, specifically for flea beetles?

http://www.planetnatural.com/site/xd...e-control.html

[chalstonsc]

Ami and Dice: Thanks for the info. I'd appreciate it if you each could comment on a question I have about using products like Actinovate, Myco, etc. I grow in smaller containers(5 gal.) in a pretty toasty climate, and I believe I recall reading conflicting opinions about the how well bacteria and fungi survive in the heat in containers. I do shade my containers, but it does get warm around here( low 90's plus forcast for the next week and has been there most of last week). What do you know about survivability in this kind of heat, or where can you point me to get the answer, and would I be wise to do more than just shade? Thanks.

[dice]

I expect that they both can take summer temperatures in
containers just fine. Actinovate has some issues with cold
soils (needs 47F minimum to be effective). Mycorrhizae,
however, survive winters well below freezing on the roots
of cold hardy winter cover crops.

Here is an abstract of a research report on the effect of
soil solarization on mycorrhizae:

http://www.springerlink.com/content/gm2fb9r6nw71h2fk/

(Conclusion: the mycorrhizae survived the raised temperatures
without population loss, but overall populations in soils were
reduced several months later by the reduced weed populations
that resulted from solarization, ie mycorrhizae need roots in the
soil.)

[amideutch]

chalstonsc, I grow 80% of my tomatoes in 5-7 gal containers. As long as your containers are a light color so they reflect the sunlight you shouldn't have any problems other than keeping them watered. A drip system would be best but if you manually water your plants as I do then you would need to water in the morning and again in the afternoon. On some of my plants I use 26qt styrofoam ice chests and they work very well. They insulate the growing medium and seem to hold the moisture a little better.
Shade won't hurt and as long as you get a minimum 5-6 hours direct sunlight a day you will be OK. Depending on where in the yard my plants are in they get anywhere from 5-12 hours of sun a day.
If the mycorrhizae are established in the growing medium it can take temperatures up to 90 deg F for short periods of time. If the plants were recently inoculated and the mycorrhizae are not established yet the temperature should not exceed 80 deg F. in the growing medium.
It might be a good Idea to get a soil thermometer and check the temperature swing during the course of the day so you know exactly whats going on inside the container. Ami

[Blueaussi]

Originally Posted by dice

[Will Actinovate disable mycorrhizae?]

That same question occured to me in this thread here:
http://www.tomatoville.com/showthrea...ate#post123737

But, see... I want information that's not from someone selling me the products in question. And someone who actually knows what's in the products they're plugging.

[dice]

But, see... I want information that's not from someone selling me the products in question. And someone who actually knows what's in the products they're plugging.

I get that, but that was the only reference I could find on the
question after a half hour with Google. Note that RTI only sells
mycorrhizae, not Actinovate. They were just saying that their
mycorrhizae product is compatible with Actinovate.

I would be much happier with a microbiological scientific
analysis that explains how streptomyces lydicus represses
pathogenic fungi and why it does not affect mycorrhizae
the same way. Alas, ....

[amideutch]

I posed the question to Natural Industries concerning the compatibility of Actinovate and Arbuscular Mycorrhizae. They have research Biologists working at the company I'm sure, and maybe we can get a definitive answer.

Whether you use Actinovate or mycorrhizae is your choice. Nobody is trying to sell it to you or make you buy it. We just put the information out there and you can do with it what you like. Instead of always asking the question, maybe you need to do a little research and try to find out for yourself the answers to some of your questions. Ami

[Blueaussi]

Originally Posted by dice

I get that, but that was the only reference I could find on the
question after a half hour with Google. Note that RTI only sells
mycorrhizae, not Actinovate. They were just saying that their
mycorrhizae product is compatible with Actinovate.

I would be much happier with a microbiological scientific
analysis that explains how streptomyces lydicus represses
pathogenic fungi and why it does not affect mycorrhizae
the same way. Alas, ....

Yeah, I haven't been able to find anything that's not by a vendor, either. I work at a university, and hopefully I'll have a little time this week to poke around in some of the on-line journals through the library. I'm still peeved that my favorite biology professor went and retired on me. He was great with search pointers and general information *and* he loved hot peppers. I don't know any of the new crop. Yet.

[boomtown]

Howdy everyone...No worries on Actinovate and the Myco working together. They both compliment each other quite nicely!