Who's working on earliness? - Page 2

dice · September 16, 2011

I have space issues, so I will have to decline. (Volunteering more space
for a group project would mean delaying something else that I am already
chomping at the bit to try now.)

goodwin · September 20, 2011

greensparrow -
I'll send you some seed. It will be interesting to see how they do in your climate which is quite different from ours. These lines are pretty stable and very vigorous. One type I took to market in early June is still producing, though it is starting to get cold at night and the leaves are turning here.

cornbreadlouie · September 21, 2011

I would he interested in growing some wild tomato crosses if you dont mind sharing seeds. I've got space for probably 5 or so plants so I dont need a ton of seeds. I dont have much of anything to share but wouldnt mind sending a sase.

goodwin · September 22, 2011

Sure, I'd be happy to send you these crosses to trial, and I'll t-mail you my address. Here are photos of a couple interesting ones. I also have some weird throwbacks like a small, very sweet GWR currant. The original idea of these crosses was to follow the sucrose accumulation, and the early development in several lines was a surprise.

cornbreadlouie · September 23, 2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by goodwin

Sure, I'd be happy to send you these crosses to trial, and I'll t-mail you my address. Here are photos of a couple interesting ones. I also have some weird throwbacks like a small, very sweet GWR currant. The original idea of these crosses was to follow the sucrose accumulation, and the early development in several lines was a surprise.

Those all sound like pretty sweet tomatoes - just send whatever and I will make space.

I was looking for a "snack sized" gwr tomato for next year so I would love to have a grow at that one.

Heading to the post office right now with your envelope.

loeb · February 7, 2012

I'm going to work on earliness, starting this year.

Maybe you will know - I've found an information, that "Early cherry" variety is another type of earliness - more about earlier fruit ripeness, than plant abiliy to make fruit. Is there any other tomato, possibly small fruit type, with such type of earliness?

dice · February 7, 2012

[Early cherry]

I would guess that the reference is simply to how fast cherry tomatoes
grow set fruit into ripe fruit.

If you look at this URL, there is a timeline for ripening a full size fruit:
http://www.tomatosite.com/index.php?...Truss_Timeline

From Day 15 to Day 49, that is 34 days to get from a set fruit beginning
to swell to a fruit about to blush with color. Maybe it only takes half that
long for a cherry tomato to get from beginning to swell to ready to blush.
It probably takes a little less or a little more time depending on how big
the cherry tomatoes get.

That is, as you say, independent of what the minimum day/night
temperatures need to be for the plant to set fruit at all.

I would guess that there is a gradient, from shortest time to ripen once
fruit have set for small, currant-sized tomatoes, up through cherry
tomatoes, small plum and saladette tomatoes, mid-size tomatoes of all
types, and to large fruited tomatoes, which likely take the longest to
ripen once fruit have set.

I expect that overall plant health and weather can affect this a few days
either way, too.

I do not know if there are academic studies which compare time from
set fruit to blushing fruit for different fruit sizes and fruit types of tomato
growing in the same conditions.

Jeannine Anne · February 7, 2012

Very interesting thread.

I am growing a batch of assorted earlies for our community garden transplants.. so will be watching this thread as info comes available.

Good Luck

XX Jeannine

February 7, 2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheLoud

Wow, what a lot of interesting projects are going on here.

Who's working on making early tomatoes more flavorful, or flavorful varieties earlier? I'm thinking of starting a project like that, and would rather build on than duplicate the work of others.

I skimmed the tomato gene pages linked here, but didn't find any genes specifically for flavor (like fruitiness, spiciness, smokiness etc.) I did find a gene that controlled acidity, but that's less interesting.

Two genes mentioned in this paper:
http://www.springerlink.com/content/5ux675jh6a1g4mth/
reduce the time between flowering and ripening. I was thinking of trying to get those genes into some of the more flavorful varieties through a lot of backcrossing. Is anyone doing that already?

I am working with Sibirskiy Skorospelyi this year to improve flavor and shape.

dice · February 7, 2012

It looks like there is an actual cultivar called "Early Cherry" that
was referenced in the paper that TheLoud posted the link to.
Territorial Seed Company lists it and calls it an F1 (hybrid):
http://www.territorialseed.com/product/10305/92

TheLoud · February 8, 2012

The symbol "F1" means it's resistant to fusarium wilt, race 1, according to their website.

loeb · February 8, 2012

Yes, I was talking about cultivar"Early cherry". This is very interesting, and I wonder if it is really faster than other cherry types, in that time from setting fruit to full ripeness.. I guess I would have to make an experiment, I have to add "Early cherry" to my wishlist

TheLoud · February 8, 2012

It takes a lot of separate traits to add up to earliness: cold hardiness, early flowering, the ability to set fruit in cold weather (a lot of early varieties are parthenocarpic for this reason) fruits that grow to full size fast, and fruits that ripen fast once they reach full size. 'Early Cherry' has two genes that improve this last trait, according to that paper. One gene also makes the fruits smaller, and the other doesn't. I'm sure those genes are in other varieties too, not just 'Early Cherry' but it's hard to track down subtle traits like that, instead of genes for, say, purple skin or stripes.

I can see a lot of potential work to do here. I'd have to look closely at existing good varieties to see which, if any, of the components of earliness have room for improvement, and then find varieties that could donate genes for those specific traits. I suspect that there are some delicious varieties that could be made earlier with a gene or two from 'Early Cherry.' Whether they'd still be delicious is a question.

DKelly · February 8, 2012

got my first early elongated grape today will be 3 weeks earlier than other I have which are also pretty danged early!

Petronius_II · February 9, 2012

I have before me an unopened pack of Botanical Interests seed I bought last year but didn't plant, called Red Siberian, and which BI claims is a 55 day indeterminate. Doesn't say anything about size, and neither does their webpage for it:

http://www.botanicalinterests.com/pr...red%20siberian

Doesn't sound at all the same as the Red Siberian Tatiana describes. Dave's lists a variety by that name, but has almost no info.

Now I'm wondering what exactly I've got here. And whether or not it would be a good breeding stock to throw into what you guys are talking about.

September 16, 2011	#16
dice Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: PNW Posts: 4,743	I have space issues, so I will have to decline. (Volunteering more space for a group project would mean delaying something else that I am already chomping at the bit to try now.) __________________ -- alias Last edited by dice; September 22, 2011 at 02:51 AM. Reason: sp

September 21, 2011	#18
cornbreadlouie Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: SF bay area... north bay Posts: 242	I would he interested in growing some wild tomato crosses if you dont mind sharing seeds. I've got space for probably 5 or so plants so I dont need a ton of seeds. I dont have much of anything to share but wouldnt mind sending a sase. __________________ Do You Like Worms?

February 7, 2012	#22
dice Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: PNW Posts: 4,743	[Early cherry] I would guess that the reference is simply to how fast cherry tomatoes grow set fruit into ripe fruit. If you look at this URL, there is a timeline for ripening a full size fruit: http://www.tomatosite.com/index.php?...Truss_Timeline From Day 15 to Day 49, that is 34 days to get from a set fruit beginning to swell to a fruit about to blush with color. Maybe it only takes half that long for a cherry tomato to get from beginning to swell to ready to blush. It probably takes a little less or a little more time depending on how big the cherry tomatoes get. That is, as you say, independent of what the minimum day/night temperatures need to be for the plant to set fruit at all. I would guess that there is a gradient, from shortest time to ripen once fruit have set for small, currant-sized tomatoes, up through cherry tomatoes, small plum and saladette tomatoes, mid-size tomatoes of all types, and to large fruited tomatoes, which likely take the longest to ripen once fruit have set. I expect that overall plant health and weather can affect this a few days either way, too. I do not know if there are academic studies which compare time from set fruit to blushing fruit for different fruit sizes and fruit types of tomato growing in the same conditions. __________________ -- alias

February 7, 2012	#25
dice Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: PNW Posts: 4,743	It looks like there is an actual cultivar called "Early Cherry" that was referenced in the paper that TheLoud posted the link to. Territorial Seed Company lists it and calls it an F1 (hybrid): http://www.territorialseed.com/product/10305/92 __________________ -- alias

September 20, 2011	#17
goodwin Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Espanola, New Mexico Posts: 606	greensparrow - I'll send you some seed. It will be interesting to see how they do in your climate which is quite different from ours. These lines are pretty stable and very vigorous. One type I took to market in early June is still producing, though it is starting to get cold at night and the leaves are turning here.

February 7, 2012	#21
loeb Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Poland Posts: 251	I'm going to work on earliness, starting this year. Maybe you will know - I've found an information, that "Early cherry" variety is another type of earliness - more about earlier fruit ripeness, than plant abiliy to make fruit. Is there any other tomato, possibly small fruit type, with such type of earliness?

February 7, 2012	#23
Jeannine Anne Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Canada Posts: 1,553	Very interesting thread. I am growing a batch of assorted earlies for our community garden transplants.. so will be watching this thread as info comes available. Good Luck XX Jeannine

February 8, 2012	#26
TheLoud Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Decatur, GA, zone 7 Posts: 28	The symbol "F1" means it's resistant to fusarium wilt, race 1, according to their website.

February 8, 2012	#29
DKelly Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Hawaii Posts: 88	got my first early elongated grape today will be 3 weeks earlier than other I have which are also pretty danged early!

February 9, 2012	#30
Petronius_II Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Albuquerque, NM - Zone 7a Posts: 209	I have before me an unopened pack of Botanical Interests seed I bought last year but didn't plant, called Red Siberian, and which BI claims is a 55 day indeterminate. Doesn't say anything about size, and neither does their webpage for it: http://www.botanicalinterests.com/pr...red%20siberian Doesn't sound at all the same as the Red Siberian Tatiana describes. Dave's lists a variety by that name, but has almost no info. Now I'm wondering what exactly I've got here. And whether or not it would be a good breeding stock to throw into what you guys are talking about.