2017 Grafting thread: Open to all

[b54red]

Originally Posted by BigVanVader

The pro! Looking good man! So how soon do they typically fail if they are going to? I'm just curious b/c so far all 3 of mine seem fine. I havent opened the healing chamber yet, how soon should I? Oh and Bill I did buy 1.5 and 2.0 mm clips but I think i'm going to order some 2.5 and 3.0

You won't regret having more sizes to work with. I know right now you think you may not need them but you will.

I grafted another chamber full right after noon today. Won't be able to do anymore til I empty one of the chambers in use now or buy another one. This means that I have over 80 grafts healing right now and if I maintain my usual failure rates I will be giving a lot away to friends who want them.

This time of the year because of the milder temperatures I usually don't have more than 10% failure unless I do something stupid, which is always a possibility with me. Of course there are and I guess always will be those times when I think I have done everything right and still have a high failure rate with a particular batch. During the summer heat when the young grafts are stressed more I sometimes have batches with as many as 50% or more not make it; but now that I seem to have gotten my ducks in a row as to the steps to take and the precautions I use I hope that will be a rare thing. Last summer when I was grafting for my summer plant outs in June and July I was maintaining around 75% success rate and higher but all it would take to ruin a whole batch during that time of the year is just one little mistake.

Good luck with your grafting and if I can help you with anything feel free to ask. I know it isn't as cut and dried as they make it out to be in most videos because you run into all kind of things you don't expect.

Bill

[b54red]

Originally Posted by BigVanVader

The pro! Looking good man! So how soon do they typically fail if they are going to? I'm just curious b/c so far all 3 of mine seem fine. I havent opened the healing chamber yet, how soon should I? Oh and Bill I did buy 1.5 and 2.0 mm clips but I think i'm going to order some 2.5 and 3.0

Sorry I forgot to answer your question about how soon do you know if they failed. Sometimes you can look at them a few hours after grafting and if one is totally wilted it will probably fail and when you first crack the container some may fail then. When I see most failures is in the first day after totally opening the healing chamber up and letting them be exposed to the outside. I sometimes see some that look perfect that are growing and looking good then you take off the clip and they just aren't stuck together. That isn't too frequent but it does happen so now I never remove the clips until the plant has grown so much the clip is about to fall off. Sometimes after they are set out in the garden the wind will separate the graft juncture if the plant is not well supported for the first few weeks but that is also rare if you harden them off well.

Bill

[BigVanVader]

I opened the lid for about 2 minutes tonight. They still look fine to me. Here is a quick pic I took. It looks like I grafted low on the stems but it's just because I piles up the DE to help hold the plant.

[heirloomtomaguy]

Looking good 3 for 3

[BigVanVader]

I hope so, I just wish my rootstock plants would grow faster, I'm eager to do more.

[Gardeneer]

Good luck , BV. Looking good.

I just did just one, without proper supplies.

graft-1.jpg
Just info: Ananas Noire on Big Beef, time, datee

graft -2.jpg
Graft : LONELY

[BigVanVader]

Good luck! I just did 4 more. 2 Prudens Purple and 2 Wes. These fit much better and the graft unions seemed a lot tighter. This is so much fun. Especially if it works

[b54red]

Looking good.

Another little trick that works if you have roots form where the DE is piled up on the stem. When the plant is healed and growing well you can lift it out of the DE to re-pot it into potting soil which I recommend you do just for the better support the potting soil will give when they are hardening off in the wind. Before you put it in the potting soil you can just pinch off the roots that have formed up the stem and make sure not to plant it that deep in the potting soil. If at all possible you will benefit from having at least and inch but better 2 inches to the graft from the soil. Doing this will sometimes make it nearly impossible to support the plant initially after the re-potting without some skewers to prop the plant up until the roots form a good root ball. Another advantage of the potting soil is it clings to the roots better and keeps the root ball together better when planting out. I have taken plants out of the cups when I just left them in the DE and had most of the DE just drop away if it was a bit dry when planting out.

It looks like my first batch is doing good and they will go outside tomorrow. I will put them in an area that keeps them out of most of the wind but they will get plenty of sun. I will be bringing them back onto the porch on any cold nights or if the wind gets too bad for the first few days. I will let you know when I think they are healed enough to handle for the re-potting into potting soil and try to get pics to post.

Good luck all.

Bill

[Gardeneer]

Ok, my only single graft ever, done 12 hours ago looks normal.
When can you tell ( at the latest) if a graft has taken or not ?

[BigVanVader]

Originally Posted by b54red

Looking good.

Another little trick that works if you have roots form where the DE is piled up on the stem. When the plant is healed and growing well you can lift it out of the DE to re-pot it into potting soil which I recommend you do just for the better support the potting soil will give when they are hardening off in the wind. Before you put it in the potting soil you can just pinch off the roots that have formed up the stem and make sure not to plant it that deep in the potting soil. If at all possible you will benefit from having at least and inch but better 2 inches to the graft from the soil. Doing this will sometimes make it nearly impossible to support the plant initially after the re-potting without some skewers to prop the plant up until the roots form a good root ball. Another advantage of the potting soil is it clings to the roots better and keeps the root ball together better when planting out. I have taken plants out of the cups when I just left them in the DE and had most of the DE just drop away if it was a bit dry when planting out.

It looks like my first batch is doing good and they will go outside tomorrow. I will put them in an area that keeps them out of most of the wind but they will get plenty of sun. I will be bringing them back onto the porch on any cold nights or if the wind gets too bad for the first few days. I will let you know when I think they are healed enough to handle for the re-potting into potting soil and try to get pics to post.

Good luck all.

Bill

Thanks for the tip Bill, my problem with some is that I need to cut below the cotyledons on the rootstock to prevent advantageous roots and mine being short to begin with left some cuts closer to the bottom than I'd like. I think I will let the other rootstock stretch a bit to try and avoid that problem.

[Gardeneer]

Originally Posted by b54red

I did another batch tonight but my arthritis was acting up and it took far too long. My initial few that I did in order to take some pics are now in the open and had their first drink since going into the healing chambers 7 days ago. I will take them out of the healing chamber and move them to another shallower tray and in a week or so I will re-pot them with potting mix.

Bill

I was searching for an answer for my question :
HOW LONG DO YOU KEEP THEM IN HEALING CHAMBER ?

Answer : 2 weeks !?
My single graft is holding good after 20 hours.

I did not even take the root stock out of its pot and grafted on it at the spot. So I know at least RS is not disturbed at all.
I am just learning.

[Jimbotomateo]

Originally Posted by b54red

Sorry I forgot to answer your question about how soon do you know if they failed. Sometimes you can look at them a few hours after grafting and if one is totally wilted it will probably fail and when you first crack the container some may fail then. When I see most failures is in the first day after totally opening the healing chamber up and letting them be exposed to the outside. I sometimes see some that look perfect that are growing and looking good then you take off the clip and they just aren't stuck together. That isn't too frequent but it does happen so now I never remove the clips until the plant has grown so much the clip is about to fall off. Sometimes after they are set out in the garden the wind will separate the graft juncture if the plant is not well supported for the first few weeks but that is also rare if you harden them off well.

Bill

Bill, do you still amend your soil in some way as a deterrent to RKN . Apologies if you've already addressed this.

[b54red]

Originally Posted by BigVanVader

Thanks for the tip Bill, my problem with some is that I need to cut below the cotyledons on the rootstock to prevent advantageous roots and mine being short to begin with left some cuts closer to the bottom than I'd like. I think I will let the other rootstock stretch a bit to try and avoid that problem.

You absolutely do not need to make the cut below the cotyledons for the graft to be good. I rarely graft below the cotyledons because of the short distance to the soil surface from the juncture. Sometimes if the root stock has a nice long stem up to the cotyledon I will make my cut below but usually I make it above the cotyledons. I have never seen any difference in the performance of the finished plant. I know it is advisable but I have not seen any reason to force the grafting so low on the plant that you have to spend a lot of time and effort trying to stop roots forming just above the graft juncture trying to go to the moist ground right below.

The only problem you will have is pinching off suckers that will form from the cotyledons and any leaf ★★★★★★★★s above that end up below the graft. I don't see that as a major problem for a home gardener but for commercial production in large fields it would be a problem. After a few weeks you quit seeing any new sprouts coming out below the graft. I just pinch them off or break them off as I do my walk through each day or two. It only takes a few minutes to do for a good many tomatoes; but it really makes planting so much easier and it allows you to put mulch up against the plant stem without roots forming from the scion.

Bill

[b54red]

Originally Posted by Gardeneer

I was searching for an answer for my question :
HOW LONG DO YOU KEEP THEM IN HEALING CHAMBER ?

Answer : 2 weeks !?
My single graft is holding good after 20 hours.

I did not even take the root stock out of its pot and grafted on it at the spot. So I know at least RS is not disturbed at all.
I am just learning.

It won't hurt to leave it in the chamber for 2 or 3 days without opening it; but I like to open the chamber after 24 hours for just a few minutes then close it up again. I do this for the first 3 to 4 days then crack the chamber for another few days. Then remove the lid completely and if the plants look dry give them a drink of diluted liquid fertilizer.

Bill

[b54red]

Originally Posted by Jimbotomateo

Bill, do you still amend your soil in some way as a deterrent to RKN . Apologies if you've already addressed this.

No the root stock has made RKN almost entirely go away on my plants. Occasionally one will get a few but not enough to really weaken the plant like they used to.

I still add compost, cottonseed meal, alfalfa pellets, and chicken manure (when I can get it) to all my beds before planting.

Bill