Raybo's InnTainer 2011/12 Winter Indoor Tomato Project - Year #2 (pics) - Page 6

z_willus_d · January 28, 2012

Hi Ray, appreciate the compliments or encouragement or just patronization of my obsessive habits. Yes, I expect the temperature to stay above 65F tonight, certainly 60F. Of course, today was a much warmer winter day than we've seen for at least a month or more. The real test will be when/if we get back down to the low 20's. The big learning for me today was that the plants were being hit my fungus/mold/etc. -- too much humidity, too little air flow. I hope to have nipped that bad situation in the bud, so to speak. We shall see.

It's interesting you picked out photo #7 (rack 2) as the money-shot. The plants in rack #1 (under the LED light) are far larger, thicker, and taller. But you know something that I'm starting to suspect is that the smaller plants under cheaper 8-lampt T5 fluorescent (rack #2) while smaller and less vigorous are just somehow healthier and better off. They (rack-2) have 6 tomatoes in aggregate, while rack #1 accounts for 7; however, those in rack-2 are larger and further along, despite being roughly 2-3 weeks behind the rack-1 plants.

Again, time shall tell. It will be interesting to see which lighting solution proves best in the end. It could be that the fluorescent, being less efficient and therefore hotter, is just doing a better job of heating the plants beneath it.

I took the last two hours of daylight outside working on the new garden. You're right, today was sublime. I even enjoyed picking weeds in the side-yard, it was that nice.

I'm looking forward to seeing your weekly update.
-naysen

rnewste · January 28, 2012

Time again for the weekly update: Jan 28. Hard to believe this is the second month "anniversary" of planting the InnTainers!

Everything is progressing well. I am especially paying attention to both blossom drop, as well as set-fruit drops. This week, I found 3 blossom drops - - but fortunately, no set-fruit drops.

Stakeless in the foreground is growing at a rapid pace:

And Mountain Princess is anything but a "Princess". This variety should have been called "Mountain Stud", or something like that:

56 inches tall today, having added 8 inches this past week.

The production King (or better yet, Queen) continues to be Mano:

36 fruitset as of today - and counting.

Rozovyi Flamingo continues along:

And pretty, diminutive Demidov keeps growing the fruit:

The Dwarf Project's Rosella Purple and Iditarod Red continue to develop:

Rosella Purple is today 27 inches tall, with Iditarod close behind at 24 inches. RP is now flowering:

On one truss, there is a large mega-bloom at the top in the photo, with more normal blossoms below:

It will be interesting to see what fruit shape develops from the mega-bloom.

And it looks like Sophie's Choice will win the race to first blush:

So far, a few fungal leaf issues, but I have now sprayed Excel LG, which hopefully, will get this under control. The sticky fly traps are doing their job on both the random fungus gnats as well as the errant whiteflies which seem to make their way into the house.

Raybo

z_willus_d · January 28, 2012

Looking good Raybo. I get those mega-blooms on my RPs as well, but so far none have managed to fertilize. It's the boring, regular medium-sized flowers that seem to get the business done. If those Mano tomatoes are half as tasty as their mother plant is productive, I'll have to add that to next Winter's grow list. You'll have to keep a rough tally of the fruit weight you get off each plant.

I wonder how much good that light is doing you buried under all the foliage. It seems likely that your plants are getting most of their photonic energy from mother nature direct.
-naysen

rnewste · January 28, 2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by z_willus_d

I wonder how much good that light is doing you buried under all the foliage. It seems likely that your plants are getting most of their photonic energy from mother nature direct.
-naysen

I have no scientific way of measuring Lumens, but I would speculate that 80% comes from the Sun, while my 250 watt HPS light makes up the difference. I did raise the light just now, another 2 inches as you are right, it was too deeply buried in the foliage.

Raybo

lakelady · January 30, 2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by z_willus_d

Ray, you've got it. That's my plan. I'll still have to dig out a good bit of soil, but that will be a lot easy once the plants are out.
Thanks for the recommendation and link.

Antoniette, how's the temperature on your InnTainer? I just ordered this (http://www.amazon.com/DeLonghi-EW770...7210740&sr=8-1) to try and keep those Tainers warmer at night.
-naysen

I don't know the temps because I have it in my kitchen. Pretty warm during the day with sun (probably 74 degrees) but at night it cools down to about 66. The door is about 7' away from it, so it gets a little quick chill when it's been cold out and the door is opening and closing. My blossom drop has stopped for some reason, and I can't think of any reason other than perhaps this particular plant needed to grow bigger to support blossoms? I"m clueless, but do have a nice blossom set finally on it

I'm thinking of making more inntainers and setting them out a bit early with a lot of protection and I think I'll get those aquarium heaters for a few to get some early tomatoes here in NJ. Sort of like mini greenhouses if I cage them and setup with shrinkwrap around the cages and cover at night. It would be really nice to get something, anything before July 4th over here!

z_willus_d · January 30, 2012

Antoniette, 66F Low at night doesn't sound bad at all. I'm glad you're keeping your blossoms. I, on the other hand, picked six or more of them off the InnTainer surface just yesterday. No new fruit set, save for the three little beads I can't be sure weren't set with the originals over six weeks back. Can you tell I'm down on this? Ok, I'll stop bemoaning my own issues and try to glory in your and other's successes.

I think the aquarium heaters seem like a good investment. Assuming they don't break down after a year or two of use, overheat in some malfunction, or electrocute me, I think they're a good deal for a bit over $10 a pop. Worth the comfort of knowing the roots are seeing close to optimal temps and not chilling down on those cold garage nights. Of course, I may end up eating these words (not the tomatoes) if something goes terribly awry down the road.

Make some more InnTainers. They seem to be working well for you and Ray. I'm getting phenomenal growth and healthy looking plants, at least.
-naysen

rnewste · January 30, 2012

Naysen,

Hang in there bud!

Your plants are really stunning. I have never grown tomato plants as robust and vigorous as what you have done. At some point, the chemical / fertilizer will come back into "harmony", with both plant vigor, as well as fruitset. It may take a bit more time, but as Lakelady is observing, her blossom / friut drop has stabilized. Nature has a way of bringing all this into balance. Give it time...

Raybo

dice · February 3, 2012

[Naysen's blossom drop]
I do not know what the cost of this is, but one thing professional
greenhouse growers and farmers do is have tissue analyses of
leaf samples of their actual plants done to see if anything is out of
balance (deficient or in excess).

Here is a link to a list of "Central Sierra" firms that do this kind of
work: http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...HX7Q2g&cad=rja

rnewste · February 3, 2012

Naysen,

I have had 2 new fruit drop this past few days (Mano) right at the thumb "knuckle" of the stem. I suppose this is "normal" for indoor growing where the plants are probably more stressed than growing outdoors. Anyway, as long as I end up with more ripe fruit than dropped ones, I think this is a good thing.

Remember, tomato plants outdoors are hard to monitor for blossom / fruit drop, versus highly visible conditions indoors. On a positive note, my Victorian Dwarf has now begun to blush - so I may have a ripe tomato by Feb 10 timeframe.

Raybo

z_willus_d · February 3, 2012

Ray, as many fruit as you have on that Mano, I'd say you might do well to loose a few. It sounds like you're loosing the fruits after they've set and the flower has faded, whereas I seem to loose them blossoms before the fruit appears. I'm not sure if it's an "apples to apples" comparison.

In any case, I found a fourth new tomato appear on one of my Rosella Purple plants (all new tomatoes have been on the four RPs). That's in addition to around 10 more blossom drops (running low on blossoms to eject).

Good going with the blush on Victorian. Maybe you can present a heart red tomato to your wife on valentine's -- I'm sure she'd find that entirely romantic given she must have to love tomatoes to put up with the likes of you, eh?!?

--naysen

rnewste · February 3, 2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by z_willus_d

Good going with the blush on Victorian. Maybe you can present a heart red tomato to your wife on valentine's -- I'm sure she'd find that entirely romantic given she must have to love tomatoes to put up with the likes of you, eh?!?

--naysen

Oops....When is Valentine's Day???

Raybo

rnewste · February 4, 2012

Time for the weekly update: Feb 4. Wow, the time flies - spent much of today building 3 new EarthTainers.

Indoor growth continues pretty well:

Stakeless (poorly named in my opinion) in the foreground is now my second tallest plant after Mountain Princess.

The BIG news this week is COLOR! Victorian Dwarf has now produced ripe fruit:

About 4 oz in size:

,,,and pretty decent tasting for my first indoor grown Heirloom tomato of the Winter Season:

Sophie's Choice has also begun to ripen as well:

Mano continues as the fruitset leader. Frankly, I've stopped counting fruit now:

And Demidov is coming along in the fruitset department as well:

Good news on the Dwarf Project front as one of the Rosella Purple plants has now set fruit:

I've had to top the upper 6 inches off Mountain Princess today, as it was about 3 inches from the ceiling. Lots of hardy looking fruits:

Life is good....

Raybo

z_willus_d · February 5, 2012

Very nice stuff Ray. And on the opposite end of the yin/yang circle, my plants are now not only dropping their fruit buds (blossoms) but also their lower branches. Actinovate didn't come through for me in the fungal/mildew/disease control department, despite a liberal foliar application as well as the soil drench I gave the plants (Roots Excelurator, Great White, etc.). I pulled out around twenty-five aborted lower branches and the disease is spreading upward. I've sprayed everything middle down with Daconil, which I really didn't want to do. We'll see if it helps. Honestly, I think the plants grew too dense and full for their own good. I have a oscillating fan running 12/7 during the daylight hours. I'm thinking I might rip out the least healthy two Tainers to give the other four more room. Those unlucky two can try and scrape by outside. I'm also wondering if the warmer water reservoir temps might be contributing to some badness, as I now see a green ting to the water in the visual water aid tube (or maybe just a slime on the tube). As far as I know, I'm treading new ground with the Aqua heaters in Tainers. Might be worth disengaging half to compare results.

Anyway, life is still good despite those discouraging happenings out there. I've got my first set of 55-seeds planted for the outdoor season. I built up two half-racks, which will later support the 75-100 seedlings plants in 6" pots that I will, knock on green Earth, produce. One rack will set in the closet, so I can probably actually hang a light above from the clothes bar as well as from the upper racking. I'll need to buy two more shop-lights, but I will not spring for the fancy T5 for these, since the first here cost eighty w/out bulbs at H.D., and I believe it's overkill for the task. I'll go with T8's for the next two.

I have to believe my troubles will diminish once nature gets a hand in the making -- she seems a far better cook than I have proven.

--naysen

rnewste · February 5, 2012

Naysen,

Sorry to hear about your difficulties with the indoor plants. Next Winter, I would suggest you consider starting with the "basics" (no worm castings, etc) then experiment with adding these in to selected InnTainers. By process of elimination, you will find the optimal combination of ingredients and amounts which keep the plants happy.

Also regarding the heaters, what you are seeing is probably a bit of algae growth which is not at all harmful to the plants. Aquarium stores have treatments you can use, if it concerns you. If it were me, I wouldn't be concerned about it. The warmth in your garage for the plants ought to be a good thing.

It is typical over time for the lower branches to turn yellow and die. Fungicides like Exel LG and Daconil can help slow down the rate of progression - but it is natural for the lower branches to begin to "age" over time. I am clipping off my lower branches as I start to see leaf discoloration today.

Your new seed starting tray looks great. One thing I found beneficial was using a HydroFarm heat mat underneath the seed starter tray. This was very helpful especially on the Peppers this year. They are pretty cheap at about $20.00 as I recall. EDIT: After looking at your photos again, I now see a power cord in photo #2 which looks to be the heat mat.

Also new for me this Season is the use of T5 lighting. In the past, after the seeds sprouted, I simply left them in the RapidRooters, then transplanted into 4" cups and set them on the windowsill.

I've ganged together 3 of the HydroFarm "JumpStart" 2 foot lights to give me a total of 72 Watts:

I had originally tried only a single light, but the plants leaned too much into the center. I then tried 2 of the T5 lights - but again the same uneven pattern.

Now, the 3 lights are evenly distributed over the 2 foot by 2 foot tray area.

The seedlings seem to be enjoying it.

Raybo

akgardengirl · February 5, 2012

Ray,
No mention of the Iditarod Red flowering indoors for you. Any signs of buds?
Sue

February 3, 2012	#83
dice Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: PNW Posts: 4,743	[Naysen's blossom drop] I do not know what the cost of this is, but one thing professional greenhouse growers and farmers do is have tissue analyses of leaf samples of their actual plants done to see if anything is out of balance (deficient or in excess). Here is a link to a list of "Central Sierra" firms that do this kind of work: http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...HX7Q2g&cad=rja __________________ -- alias

January 28, 2012	#76
z_willus_d Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Eastern Suburb of Sacramento, CA Posts: 1,313	Hi Ray, appreciate the compliments or encouragement or just patronization of my obsessive habits. Yes, I expect the temperature to stay above 65F tonight, certainly 60F. Of course, today was a much warmer winter day than we've seen for at least a month or more. The real test will be when/if we get back down to the low 20's. The big learning for me today was that the plants were being hit my fungus/mold/etc. -- too much humidity, too little air flow. I hope to have nipped that bad situation in the bud, so to speak. We shall see. It's interesting you picked out photo #7 (rack 2) as the money-shot. The plants in rack #1 (under the LED light) are far larger, thicker, and taller. But you know something that I'm starting to suspect is that the smaller plants under cheaper 8-lampt T5 fluorescent (rack #2) while smaller and less vigorous are just somehow healthier and better off. They (rack-2) have 6 tomatoes in aggregate, while rack #1 accounts for 7; however, those in rack-2 are larger and further along, despite being roughly 2-3 weeks behind the rack-1 plants. Again, time shall tell. It will be interesting to see which lighting solution proves best in the end. It could be that the fluorescent, being less efficient and therefore hotter, is just doing a better job of heating the plants beneath it. I took the last two hours of daylight outside working on the new garden. You're right, today was sublime. I even enjoyed picking weeds in the side-yard, it was that nice. I'm looking forward to seeing your weekly update. -naysen

January 28, 2012	#77
rnewste Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Campbell, CA Posts: 4,064	Time again for the weekly update: Jan 28. Hard to believe this is the second month "anniversary" of planting the InnTainers! Everything is progressing well. I am especially paying attention to both blossom drop, as well as set-fruit drops. This week, I found 3 blossom drops - - but fortunately, no set-fruit drops. Stakeless in the foreground is growing at a rapid pace: And Mountain Princess is anything but a "Princess". This variety should have been called "Mountain Stud", or something like that: 56 inches tall today, having added 8 inches this past week. The production King (or better yet, Queen) continues to be Mano: 36 fruitset as of today - and counting. Rozovyi Flamingo continues along: And pretty, diminutive Demidov keeps growing the fruit: The Dwarf Project's Rosella Purple and Iditarod Red continue to develop: Rosella Purple is today 27 inches tall, with Iditarod close behind at 24 inches. RP is now flowering: On one truss, there is a large mega-bloom at the top in the photo, with more normal blossoms below: It will be interesting to see what fruit shape develops from the mega-bloom. And it looks like Sophie's Choice will win the race to first blush: So far, a few fungal leaf issues, but I have now sprayed Excel LG, which hopefully, will get this under control. The sticky fly traps are doing their job on both the random fungus gnats as well as the errant whiteflies which seem to make their way into the house. Raybo

January 30, 2012	#81
z_willus_d Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Eastern Suburb of Sacramento, CA Posts: 1,313	Antoniette, 66F Low at night doesn't sound bad at all. I'm glad you're keeping your blossoms. I, on the other hand, picked six or more of them off the InnTainer surface just yesterday. No new fruit set, save for the three little beads I can't be sure weren't set with the originals over six weeks back. Can you tell I'm down on this? Ok, I'll stop bemoaning my own issues and try to glory in your and other's successes. I think the aquarium heaters seem like a good investment. Assuming they don't break down after a year or two of use, overheat in some malfunction, or electrocute me, I think they're a good deal for a bit over $10 a pop. Worth the comfort of knowing the roots are seeing close to optimal temps and not chilling down on those cold garage nights. Of course, I may end up eating these words (not the tomatoes) if something goes terribly awry down the road. Make some more InnTainers. They seem to be working well for you and Ray. I'm getting phenomenal growth and healthy looking plants, at least. -naysen

January 30, 2012	#82
rnewste Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Campbell, CA Posts: 4,064	Naysen, Hang in there bud! Your plants are really stunning. I have never grown tomato plants as robust and vigorous as what you have done. At some point, the chemical / fertilizer will come back into "harmony", with both plant vigor, as well as fruitset. It may take a bit more time, but as Lakelady is observing, her blossom / friut drop has stabilized. Nature has a way of bringing all this into balance. Give it time... Raybo

February 4, 2012	#87
rnewste Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Campbell, CA Posts: 4,064	Time for the weekly update: Feb 4. Wow, the time flies - spent much of today building 3 new EarthTainers. Indoor growth continues pretty well: Stakeless (poorly named in my opinion) in the foreground is now my second tallest plant after Mountain Princess. The BIG news this week is COLOR! Victorian Dwarf has now produced ripe fruit: About 4 oz in size: ,,,and pretty decent tasting for my first indoor grown Heirloom tomato of the Winter Season: Sophie's Choice has also begun to ripen as well: Mano continues as the fruitset leader. Frankly, I've stopped counting fruit now: And Demidov is coming along in the fruitset department as well: Good news on the Dwarf Project front as one of the Rosella Purple plants has now set fruit: I've had to top the upper 6 inches off Mountain Princess today, as it was about 3 inches from the ceiling. Lots of hardy looking fruits: Life is good.... Raybo

February 5, 2012	#89
rnewste Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Campbell, CA Posts: 4,064	Naysen, Sorry to hear about your difficulties with the indoor plants. Next Winter, I would suggest you consider starting with the "basics" (no worm castings, etc) then experiment with adding these in to selected InnTainers. By process of elimination, you will find the optimal combination of ingredients and amounts which keep the plants happy. Also regarding the heaters, what you are seeing is probably a bit of algae growth which is not at all harmful to the plants. Aquarium stores have treatments you can use, if it concerns you. If it were me, I wouldn't be concerned about it. The warmth in your garage for the plants ought to be a good thing. It is typical over time for the lower branches to turn yellow and die. Fungicides like Exel LG and Daconil can help slow down the rate of progression - but it is natural for the lower branches to begin to "age" over time. I am clipping off my lower branches as I start to see leaf discoloration today. Your new seed starting tray looks great. One thing I found beneficial was using a HydroFarm heat mat underneath the seed starter tray. This was very helpful especially on the Peppers this year. They are pretty cheap at about $20.00 as I recall. EDIT: After looking at your photos again, I now see a power cord in photo #2 which looks to be the heat mat. Also new for me this Season is the use of T5 lighting. In the past, after the seeds sprouted, I simply left them in the RapidRooters, then transplanted into 4" cups and set them on the windowsill. I've ganged together 3 of the HydroFarm "JumpStart" 2 foot lights to give me a total of 72 Watts: I had originally tried only a single light, but the plants leaned too much into the center. I then tried 2 of the T5 lights - but again the same uneven pattern. Now, the 3 lights are evenly distributed over the 2 foot by 2 foot tray area. The seedlings seem to be enjoying it. Raybo

February 5, 2012	#90
akgardengirl Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Anchorage, AK zone 3/4 Posts: 1,410	Ray, No mention of the Iditarod Red flowering indoors for you. Any signs of buds? Sue