Best grafted tomato varieties?

[Stvrob]

I want to try that!
Just so I understand you, you think it might have been best to trim the foliage of the scion initially to what you have in the second photo? Also, I have clips for tube grafts, I suppose there is no reason your success would depend on the side graft?

I wonder if I can find a scion with an imminent sucker that is small enough diameter for my graft clips? I'll just have to look!

[Delerium]

Yes what i am saying is get rid of the growing tip (leader) and keep 1 branch so you encourage a sucker to grow. I will have to test this again but.. this is VERY encouraging. As sloppy as this graft is - it took. By the time my new root stocks that i started from seed start to catch up i will have a better handle at this grafting. Now for sure i know no roots works with top and side grafting.

[Stvrob]

OK, so I don't necessarily need to find a scion with a evidence of a sucker already forming? that would be good because I cant find anything like that which is small enough to fit any of my clips I already have, though I guess I could try a side graft on larger diameter.

[Delerium]

The thing is i think this will work with top or side grafting. I just wondered why this did not come to me earlier. Wouldn't it be funny if this works with all grafting cases without the top leader to stress the plant? Oh man.. Stvrob please do one so we can help the folks who get discouraged with grafts wilting. I think we are getting close to making grafting simple without all the pampering.

[Delerium]

I am going to do 1 graft just for fun to see if this works. Will report back with a picture - so we have date to look back at.

[Stvrob]

OK, I just tried 6 of the no-root grafts. On five of them, the growing tip is still intact. These are Opalka on supersweet 100 rootstock. (as I usually do, I trimmed of nearly all the scion foliage though). These are top grafted with silicone clips.
On the sixth, (Opalka on Celebrity Hybrid) the only growing tip is the faintest hint of a sucker between the stem and a leaf. it was too big for my clips, so I made a cleft graft secured with a piece of 3/8" OD HDPE tubing.

I can still trim more foliage on the other five? they are more like your previously described no-root technique. I'll add a pic in a few minutes

[Delerium]

Here is mine - 4 grafts to keep it simple. Root stock is Celebrity. Scions are 1 Prudens Purple, 2 Pink Oxheart and 1 Brandywine.

[Stvrob]

Only one has no growing tip (other than a hint of a sucker). Its the one with the cleft graft and a piece of HDPE tubing. I guess I could snip the tip off the others?

[Stvrob]

Only one has no growing tip (other than a hint of a sucker). Its the one with the cleft graft and a piece of HDPE tubing. I guess I could snip the tip off the others?

I just dipped them in rootone and pushed them in some course potting mix that should be reasonably sterile. Should I do anything special? I just have them sitting by the window where they will get a bit of afternoon sun. Or you think deep shade or dark for a few days?

[Delerium]

I keep them shaded - no direct sunlight. In a few days if its not wilting then goes in to the CFL lights then straight outdoors. That's how i have done it. So will see. I did it straight in DE this time should root faster. Since my first wave of grafts last year - i haven't used any soil mediums. Only because its so easy to root clones in DE. Good Luck! It would be nice to see how much faster your grafts will heal with rooting hormone.

[Stvrob]

I honestly don't think the rooting hormone does anything for tomatoes, I just use it cause it was there in front of me. For other plants that are more difficult to root, it is invaluable though.

I usually tomato root cuttings on a picnic table under a shade tree, they will sometimes wilt just a bit and then quickly come back to life. Of course with the graft they might need a bit better care.

I was contemplating grafting a pepper onto a celebrity rootstock. I wonder if that would work? I want more Jimmy Nardello's but dont have any more seed, but I do have 4 plants growing. Ive read of people putting tomatoes on Eggplant roots, so it doesnt sound too far fetched?

[Delerium]

If you can graft a tomato on a eggplant or tomato on to potato. It's probably possible to do a pepper on to a tomato as well. With peppers taking longer times to root from a cutting i bet it will take longer for it to heal as well. Was it Aclum who did the tomato/eggplant graft? Wonder how much harder or easier it was to get it to heal?

[b54red]

Originally Posted by Delerium

I have a small update to share.

On may 9th just for fun i wanted to try a side graft in water. In 15 days it healed - no humidity dome. I did trim off all the leaves. But there is something interesting that got my attention with this. With the scion most of the time it wilts but what if you just left 1 branch allowing a sucker to grow but cut off the top. This will take off stress from the leaves above. Now i am wondering if all you really need is one branch to encourage a sucker to grow while the graft heals. Figured I'd share this with all of you. I only did 1 graft and it took so that's pretty darn good odds me thinks without all the babying . I know its a pretty ugly looking graft!

I don't see why that wouldn't work. The one weakness would be the tendency sometimes for suckers to be very weak where they come out so you could have an additional weak spot to give you problems if it is windy when the plant is very young. I have actually had a couple of grafts where the growth tip died but a sucker came out on the scion below the growth tip and it did fine.

On my last batch of grafts I cut the scion way back so there was almost no leaf on them and only lost a couple. Some of them only had a tiny growth tip when I pruned them and they never even wilted and now are starting to grow out nicely.

I keep running into the problem of plants too large to graft easily. I don't want to graft so high up I can't put them in a healing chamber because they are so tall and I don't have any kind of clip that will support them so next time I do some grafting I am going to experiment with something different on some of them and see if it will work. I am going to cut the plants off and try to match the size and then cut down about an inch midway through on both the scion and rootstock. Then I am going to connect the two flat cuts together holding them tight with two to three clips. It will be a variation of side grafting but I will be able to support the two pieces and hold them tight together along the cuts so they have a chance to heal. I don't know if my explanation is very clear but when I do it I'll take some pictures to show exactly what I'm doing.

If we all keep trying things we may come up with some more good solutions to some of our grafting problems.

Bill

[clkeiper]

Originally Posted by Delerium

Try using the humidity recovery dome for the first few days in shade. During those few days - make sure you open for some fresh air otherwise it slows down the transition phase to full recovery. Are you doing the root/graft in soil or DE that makes a big difference.

I did use a HD, but they started rooting from the scion. I had great big fuzzy roots growing over the rootstock to the DE. Maybe it is my rootstock that I am having so much trouble with, I don't really know, but this has been an epic failure for me on every try.I am using a rootstock called TROOPER IMPROVED, btw. I have tried this traditionally with (I think, without going back through all the posts, b54's instructions), rooting/grafting at the same time, in DE with and without the HD, in water with only enough to make the DE moist, covered and uncovered... I will keep trying though! I want to learn how to do this and be successful. I did get a couple to take on the traditional grafting method. (I know I can I know I can I know I can...)

[b54red]

Originally Posted by clkeiper

I did use a HD, but they started rooting from the scion. I had great big fuzzy roots growing over the rootstock to the DE. Maybe it is my rootstock that I am having so much trouble with, I don't really know, but this has been an epic failure for me on every try.I am using a rootstock called TROOPER IMPROVED, btw. I have tried this traditionally with (I think, without going back through all the posts, b54's instructions), rooting/grafting at the same time, in DE with and without the HD, in water with only enough to make the DE moist, covered and uncovered... I will keep trying though! I want to learn how to do this and be successful. I did get a couple to take on the traditional grafting method. (I know I can I know I can I know I can...)

Make sure that your rootstock isn't watered for a day or so before doing your grafting. I start my seeds and root suckers in DE but I put my rootstock in cups with potting soil leaving at least 1/2 inch of the cup with no soil in it. They will remain in these coffee cups til I plant them in the garden. I like to give my scions a good watering not too long before grafting and cut off most of the leaves at least 24 hours before grafting. Try using only a short scion piece with almost no leaves except the very small one coming from the growth tip. If your rootstock is in potting soil cover the surface with about 1/2 inch of dry DE just before you put it in the humidity chamber to help prevent damping off. Keep it in near total darkness for the first 24 hours but open the chamber and mist the top of the chamber if it is getting dry. Start allowing more light and opening the chamber more frequently but only for a very short time. By the end of the third day let the chamber receive indirect light but not direct sunlight. Between the fifth and seventh day start leaving the chamber cracked for longer and longer times until by the 7th or 8th day you have it open completely. At this point you may need to bottom water some of the plants. If any are wilting or the DE is totally dry set them in some water with a dab of dilute fertilizer and allow them a drink. I like to keep mine in indirect light for about 4 or 5 days and then start slowly allowing more direct sunlight until I can leave them outside in direct sunlight all day. After they have been outside for about a week you may need to remove some of your clips depending upon what kind you have. For a few days after removing any clips protect the plants from any strong wind and then just let them harden a bit longer keeping them watered and fertilized. When they are starting to grow good it's time to put them in the garden and see if they can make it on their own. I would however make sure to support them immediately as too much wind will sometimes break the grafts.

I know it sounds like a lot but each step only takes a minute and that is what I did with my most successful attempts where my success rate was above 70%. Oh I also put my healing chamber in an air conditioned room so the terrible heat down here didn't put too much stress on the grafted scion. I've found out too much heat or cold can be a disaster when grafting as can too much water.

Bill