The Great Fertilizer Debate! Does anything really beat....

[habitat_gardener]

Alex, to make comfrey tea, I chop up the comfrey (I use the spent flowering stalks, yellowed and chewed leaves, and anything that's turned brown) in a bucket, cover with water, weigh it down if necessary, and cover. It can steep for a day or a couple weeks or more, getting stinkier every day. If you let it sit more than a couple days, it will smell like an open sewer when you open the bucket! To use, I pull out the stems and put them in the compost bin, then I dilute the liquid before applying to plants. Generally I water the plants first, then add a quart or so of comfrey tea to a bucket of water, use some of that, then water the plants again to rinse away the residue.

Someone on another site was using fresh plant material to feed plants -- essentially pulverizing the green plants and using the juice or slurry immediately.

If I don't have a bucket handy, I just chop up the comfrey stalks and use them as mulch. Whenever possible, I chop up garden waste and use it as mulch instead of putting it in the bin.

[velikipop]

That sounds great, Thanks.


Alex

[zopi]

I try to garden organically, but I am not averse to miracle grow..especially as my garden is fairly new and I haven't dropped a semi truckload of compost in yet...

[habitat_gardener]

zopi, There are good reasons not to use synthetic ferts, or even organic ferts more concentrated than 10-10-10. See
http://tomatoville.com/showthread.php?t=10943

Basically, dumping these concentrates kills life in the soil, which impairs the ability of the plant to feed itself using the soil food web. The plant then becomes dependent on the fert fix, like a drug addict. All the other services provided by the soil food web, such as providing micronutrients as needed or boosting the plant's immune system, are impaired or unavailable.

[zopi]

I guess I should have added...very sparingly...In our last garden you had to run from the plants and never enter the garden at night, started with a 6" layer of solid compost and turned that in about two feet deep, and added greens all winter...HUGE tomatos...good stuff...just haven't gotten there yet at our new place...

The only reason I used any synthetic fert this year was because we got a slow start..plants couldn't take off because of all the rain, it stopped raining and they kind of stagnated..two applications later and they took off...haven't done it since...next year won't matter...will have organics aplenty.

[bohica]

It took me 3 years of prepping my soil before I started seeing any results, once I got serious about soil biology and stopped using most any harsh chemical I started seeing the real changes. Now days I take 2 soil samples a year to be tested, one in the fall to see where I am at and to amend and one in the spring to see if any additional amendments are needed. I use a professional lab, no disrespect intended, but I've tried the local co-op extention and found them to lack the detailed tests that I preferred.
The plants go crazy, its a prime example of feed the soil and the soil feeds the plants. I usually apply compost tea once a week, I have gone as far as to have my tea tested for D.O., PH, Nitrogen levels and I've looked at it under a microscope, very neat to say the least! I am very serious about my soil and my plants, not only my competition plants, I treat my tomatoes like they are royality....lol I will supplement with foliar feedings when necessary.

[organichris]

Originally Posted by habitat_gardener

Basically, dumping these concentrates kills life in the soil, which impairs the ability of the plant to feed itself using the soil food web. The plant then becomes dependent on the fert fix, like a drug addict. All the other services provided by the soil food web, such as providing micronutrients as needed or boosting the plant's immune system, are impaired or unavailable.

So true. Too many are caught up on high NPK ratios, when they could actually use organic fertilizer with much lower ratios and get the same or better results. With water-soluble chemicals, a good deal of the fertilizer will be lost through leaching. Growth patterns with organics will be different usually. Rather than having plants explode all at once when your plants get a shot of dope, you will have a gradual and progressive rate of growth. But the end result will be the same, and the residual benefits of organics with respect to soil health cannot be compared to chemical agriculture.

Love your worms and microbes.

[velikipop]

"Feeding the soil to feed the plants" is perhaps the best advice on how to fertilize, in my opinion, and the most compelling reason to avoid chemical fertilizers.

Alex

[organichris]

Originally Posted by velikipop

"Feeding the soil to feed the plants" is perhaps the best advice on how to fertilize, in my opinion, and the most compelling reason to avoid chemical fertilizers.

Alex

I humbly concur.

[mdvpc]

And I think that is also true, even if you grow in containers.

[scottfsmith]

It took me far too many years to catch on to how to fertilize; this group was probably the biggest help -- the descriptions combined with the pictures of lush plants showed I was doing things all wrong. I now use a no-till method and put several inches of compost and manure on top. In each hole I work tomato-tone at planting time into the cubic foot or so around each plant. In past years I have fertilized mid-season but this year my soil is so good and the plants are going so well that I have not felt the need to add anything. All I need to do is to grow a winter cover crop, something I have not stepped up to do yet.

Scott

[macondla]

I called a local stable about getting some of their manure. Success! I now have about 4 wheelbarrow loads of it sitting in my back yard and a promise that I can have all that he's got piled up behind his barn. Being a unseasoned gardener leaves me with lots of questions. When lasagna gardening, layering newspapers, cardboard and then organics, can I just use the manure and not add any composted materials? I am preparing what I call postage stamp garden spots for next spring. I went to my local Sam's and got the cardboard that is the size of wooden shipping pallets. I have put 7 layers of newspaper, 3 layers of cardboard and then loaded the top with the manure. Will this be enough? The ground is clay and seems to grow crabgrass just fine. Oh, I also added coffee grounds too, just on top of the cardboard. The grounds I get free from the local Starbucks. By setting up the layers now for next spring I hope that what I am doing will amend the soil enough for plants to be healthy and productive. Any advice?

Barbara, aka, macondla

[dice]

Any advice?

Cover them with a dusting of dolomite lime (Soil Sweet, $3 and
change for 40lb at HD) and toss handfuls of gypsum around.
The dolomite is really just to supply some magnesium (and
calcium). A bed like that usually does not need much pH
adjustment, if any, so you do not want to mix much dolomite
into it, just enough to make sure that you have some
magnesium in there. Gypsum supplies calcium without
changing the pH, and you can use it more generously than
the lime. (Costs about the same.)

If I were doing it, I would mix in some greensand, too (at the
recommended rate on the bag). Rich in iron, provides a number
of other trace elements, and quite slow release. One application
should last for years. If you search around, you can probably
find a 50-lb bag for $20-30, enough to do all of the beds and
have some left over for future use.

Topping it all with an inch of dirt makes the worms happier
(provides a source of grit for their digestion), and a layer of
shredded leaves or straw on top makes it more user friendly.
(Composted manure does not have much odor, but the
neighbors usually don't know that, and that avoids tracking
it into the house or wherever when you have to step in it
to do something after it has been raining.)

[Raymondo]

I garden in heavy clay. I don't dig anymore, or at least only if I absolutely have to dig something out. New beds are prepared by spreading lime, to break up my acidic clay, and a mineral fertiliser to add the trace elements, laying down a thick mat of newspaper, then covering with whatever mulch is at hand - grass clippings, straw when it's cheap etc. After a year I fork open the soil, mulch it again then that's it. I start planting. Plants get a foliar feed whenever I make up a batch of compost tea, probably averages out at monthly, and I add compost as a top dressing whenever I have any just before adding more mulch. I try to leave plant roots in the ground, unless the plant is obviously diseased, and I try to rotate crops where possible. Everything is either fed to the worms, composted or used as mulch.

[macondla]

Dice and Ray,

I want to thank both of you. I will do as you advised. Making my list of things to buy. I will be getting it all and as I add the new beds do them from scratch like you have said to. There are two in place now that I will topping off with what's missing.

Having all this help for next year means that my edge for success just jumped beyond my expectations. I know that the weather and other elements are things that have the final say, but at least my plants don't have to fight me for survival now too..., at least not as much...

Barbara, aka macondla, sooo many Barbara's and just one macondla