2017 Grafting thread: Open to all

[Father'sDaughter]

Congratulations Bill, on getting them planted out! And that's part of what I love about the DE -- it's reusable to a great extent. You just need to flush any non-organic fertilizers out of it and then give it a blast in the oven, and it's good to go for the next season.

I had a delay of game -- got home late from a weekend away, so Sunday night became impossible even if had come up with a bag of Optisorb.

I carved enough time out of my day on Monday to shoot over to the closest O'Reillys and finally grab a bag.

It's funny how the clerks have no idea what you're talking about when you ask for this stuff by name. It was the same when I went to Autozone the first time looking for Ultrasorb -- "Sorry, we don't carry that..." when in fact they have a stash of it somewhere in the store. Ask for floor dry or speedy dry, and they lead you right to it.

Sometime between now and Sunday, my grafts will get made no matter what! The root stock got their last watering yesterday morning, so I'm hoping they will have dried out enough by tomorrow. All have been growing very slowly and the root stock have just about caught up the the scions. All are still pretty petite.

It's amazing how much slower everything grows when their roots are confined to the egg carton cups. If I had started these in the small pots like I usually do, they would have been way past grafting size by now.

[b54red]

I do all my small seed planting in egg cartons except onions. I feed mine regularly with a diluted fertilizer and they grow pretty fast; but it does keep tomato plants stems smaller for a while especially if you don't give them enough fertilizer. When mine get to the size for grafting I hold back on the fertilizer so they stop growing so fast and in order to keep them at a good size for grafting a bit longer.

I don't rinse or oven bake my saved DE. I just set the bucket outside out of the rain and let it dry from the sun. It takes a long time for the DE to completely dry and even if it isn't completely dry I go ahead and use it again when grafting.

Bill

[heirloomtomaguy]

I finally planted out my second round of grafts, 5 in total. The first 3 grafts i did are no longer with us. They were just too small for the clips i had.

[Hellmanns]

Just potted up 323 Maxifort rootstocks. Grafting should commence within a couple of weeks.

[jtjmartin]

Originally Posted by Hellmanns

Just potted up 323 Maxifort rootstocks. Grafting should commence within a couple of weeks.

Wow Hellman's! Do you also sell grafted plants?

My first year. Used RST-106 and just a few extra Big Beef for rootstock. I've grafted 34 plants in 4 sessions and so far have lost 3. (Though 2 or 3 from the last grafting session don't look too good.)

Most of the failures happened to plants that were probably too thin for the clip and a couple wispy scions.

I've used the method of this thread - thanks Bill - and did two experiments.

1) cleft grafting. when the rootstock was a lot thicker than my available scions, I made a straight cut across the rootstock and then split the stem in half. I cut the bottom of the scion like a v and slid it into the rootstock. Both worked!

2) Big beef ala delirium. I'm adding grafts onto an existing Big Beef plant. So far they are taking.

Thanks all!

Jeff

[Father'sDaughter]

So, two things I need to change for the next time -- buy some smaller clips, and start the rootstock either a week before, or at the very latest at the same time as the scions.

My biggest challenges today were that the scions were much larger than the the rootstock, and the 2.0 mm clips may have been a bit to large for a few of them. I quickly learned that if I grafted above the cots on the rootstock, the two nubs from where I cut off the cots would help hold onto the clip and keep it from sliding around on the rootstock stem. And, along with most of the roots from the rootstock, I also removed the larger leaves from the scions to reduce the strain on the rootstock.

I grafted onto all the rootstock I had available and am hoping for the best. The eight scions I had no rootstock for were just potted up and I may use them as "control" plants if enough of my grafts don't survive.

[Hellmanns]

Originally Posted by jtjmartin

Wow Hellman's! Do you also sell grafted plants?

My first year. Used RST-106 and just a few extra Big Beef for rootstock. I've grafted 34 plants in 4 sessions and so far have lost 3. (Though 2 or 3 from the last grafting session don't look too good.)

Most of the failures happened to plants that were probably too thin for the clip and a couple wispy scions.

I've used the method of this thread - thanks Bill - and did two experiments.

1) cleft grafting. when the rootstock was a lot thicker than my available scions, I made a straight cut across the rootstock and then split the stem in half. I cut the bottom of the scion like a v and slid it into the rootstock. Both worked!

2) Big beef ala delirium. I'm adding grafts onto an existing Big Beef plant. So far they are taking.

Thanks all!

Jeff

I've been grafting for 30 years..

First timer here for tomatoes tho. I figured go big so I could lose a small fortune the first round! I'll try to keep everyone updated on my success..Or flop.

[b54red]

Originally Posted by Father'sDaughter

So, two things I need to change for the next time -- buy some smaller clips, and start the rootstock either a week before, or at the very latest at the same time as the scions.

My biggest challenges today were that the scions were much larger than the the rootstock, and the 2.0 mm clips may have been a bit to large for a few of them. I quickly learned that if I grafted above the cots on the rootstock, the two nubs from where I cut off the cots would help hold onto the clip and keep it from sliding around on the rootstock stem. And, along with most of the roots from the rootstock, I also removed the larger leaves from the scions to reduce the strain on the rootstock.

I grafted onto all the rootstock I had available and am hoping for the best. The eight scions I had no rootstock for were just potted up and I may use them as "control" plants if enough of my grafts don't survive.

It is not that big a problem having the scion bigger than the root stock seedling. I much prefer it that way. All you need is the very top of the scion for grafting and it is always pretty small. I have even gone out in the garden and taken growth tips and suckers to use as scions with success grafting onto small root stock seedlings. The important thing is to graft like sized stems together even if you have to go further up the root stock or vise versa with the scion. I have had some grafts a good 8 inches above the soil line on the root stock and grafted using just the top inch of a scion in order to align the stem sizes.

The biggest problem for me is having root stock too large so that I can't fit the completed graft into my healing chambers which are less than a foot deep. I much prefer larger scions and you probably will also with more experience grafting. Of course it is easiest if they are the same size but that just doesn't happen very often.

Bill

[bjbebs]

I thought I'd join in the fun. My garden tomatoes do not suffer from any soil born disease that I know of. I seeded a flat Brandy Boy hybrid (old seed) and Chapman a few weeks back. The Brandy Boy was used as the root stock. I used small diameter straws cut lengthwise and clothespins to hold the graft in place. No DE or perlite on hand so used old seed starting mix that was cut with perlite. These went into small cups, watered sparingly and then into mostly closed ziplocks.

I understand the rootstock will pass on to the scion what resistance or tolerance to disease it has. What other attributes might the scion get from the rootstock. Will it be possible to shorten the DTM on the scion. Chapman is late for me, 85-90 days.

During plant out, if the graft is planted below the soil line, and both the rootstock and scion are throwing roots, how will this affect what the scion derives from the rootstock. In other words, would this eliminate any good transfer from rootstock to scion. I'm sure this has been answered somewhere. Any ideas?

[Delerium]

^^^^ Smart guy.. love DIY inexpensive solutions.

[Father'sDaughter]

Tonight marked four days since grafting. I've been giving them a breath of fresh air every evening, and this morning the towels I've had draped over them came completely off the humidity dome as it was a cloudy day with no sun coming in the living room windows.

I've had the trays sitting on the coffee table as it's a bit warmer there than in the dining room. The large picture window faces southeast so I can cover them up before bed, and by the time I leave for work the sun is high enough that it's not shining in the window and I can take the towels off for the day.

All 38 are still standing up straight and looking very perky. Tomorrow I will open up the top vents for a few hours and see how they do.

[Father'sDaughter]

We are now at the nine day mark and so far so good (knocking on wood).

A couple of days ago I tried taking the domes off completely, and within an hour I had major drooping. I gave them and the insides of the domes a good misting and covered them back up. By that afternoon everyone was happy again.

Back to just opened vents for another couple of days.

This morning I took the domes off again then gave them a bit of water with diluted TTF Vegetable formula. About an hour later the droopiness seemed to be starting again. So I put the domes back on but propped up off the trays by about two inches and left for work. I figured it was do or die time.

When I got home this evening they were looking quite perky again so I took the domes off. I guess the water made it up the stems and all the way up to the leaves!

It's now been three hours since I uncovered them. Of the 38, one is a definite goner (was questionable right from day one), two look questionable, and the remaining 35 seem to be very happy... for now.

I guess I'll know by tomorrow where I really stand.

[b54red]

Originally Posted by Father'sDaughter

We are now at the nine day mark and so far so good (knocking on wood).

A couple of days ago I tried taking the domes off completely, and within an hour I had major drooping. I gave them and the insides of the domes a good misting and covered them back up. By that afternoon everyone was happy again.

Back to just opened vents for another couple of days.

This morning I took the domes off again then gave them a bit of water with diluted TTF Vegetable formula. About an hour later the droopiness seemed to be starting again. So I put the domes back on but propped up off the trays by about two inches and left for work. I figured it was do or die time.

When I got home this evening they were looking quite perky again so I took the domes off. I guess the water made it up the stems and all the way up to the leaves!

It's now been three hours since I uncovered them. Of the 38, one is a definite goner (was questionable right from day one), two look questionable, and the remaining 35 seem to be very happy... for now.

I guess I'll know by tomorrow where I really stand.

Congratulations it looks like you are going to have a very successful batch of grafts.

I could never leave plants in the chamber for that long down here because of all the damp and rot diseases that seem to just be in the air so mine have to sink or swim within seven or at the most eight days. Some drooping is normal when the healing chamber is first completely left off but with a little drink of diluted fertilizer water they will usually be looking much better in a day. However if the lid is taken off and the conditions are too hot and dry the drooping can be fatal to a fair number of grafts. Since I graft right into the hottest part of summer my success rate tends to drop off as the temperatures rise; but since I am setting out far fewer plants in the summer it all works out fine.

Bill

[Father'sDaughter]

Thanks Bill! You've been a great teacher and your DE/low root volume/reduced foliage technique seems to work well in my northern environment as well.

Up here it's still cool with indoor temps ranging from 63 at night and during the day when we're not home, to 69 during mornings and evenings. However, I did notice a bit of a sour smell starting on the inside of my domes yesterday, which is what finally pushed me to get them off.

Not much has changed this morning, and I now need to think about getting them under the lights soon. I've enjoyed having them up here in the living room where I could keep a close eye on them.

[rick9748]

My heirlooms to use as scions have gotten 16 to 32 of in. larger than my root stock.Is there a method to slow down the heirlooms or speed up the root stocks to adjust size?I can adjust any conditions; light, heat, ect.Any ideas.
Thanks
Rick