Thorburn's Terra-Cotta Tomato

[sjamesNorway]

Originally Posted by salix

sjamesNorway (?Steve) Thank you so very much for posting that link. I have just spent over an hour going through the catalogue - just amazing the varieties listed, I think there were 9 types of Forget-me-nots for example, and an absolutely astonishing number of coniferous and deciduous tree and shrub seeds. I was surprised to see how many more flowers and ornamentals than vegetables were available, but not surprised to see the various cereals and grains listed. Will be going through that again and sending the info to my sister and aunts. So nice to see that gardening for us has some link to the past, guess we came by it legitimately.

jmsieglaff - I won't bother to grow it, as I am pretty sure that it is not what was described. I'm afraid I have little faith in WWWs 'discoveries'. I hope it turns out to be a winner for you.

Yes, I've been checking out some of the old catalogs. There are quite a few available on the internet. They have some wonderful covers and illustrations, as well as an amazing number of varieties of all sorts of plants.

Steve (yup)

[travis]

Here is a photo of a part of page 8, the 2016 Good Seed Catalog, in which "Thornburn's Terra Cotta Tomato" is offered.
The "Terra Cotta" tomato is the one on the bottom left. The red tomato is a different variety, as is the yellow tomato.


As you can see, the tomato is displayed as a "yellow ochre" toned fruit, which may or may not necessarily be "terra cotta" colored, but certainly NOT a "chocolate" tomato (maroon gf with yellow epidermis) as is displayed in the photograph given by Baker Creek at another online page linked to by Carolyn.

Here is the description of "Thornburn's Terra Cotta Tomato" that accompanies the picture posted above.


As you can read, the tomato is NOT described in accordance with the photograph provided by Baker Creek at the site linked by Carolyn, where the tomato clearly is a "chocolate" toned tomato (red fleshed/gf with yellow epidermis "maroon") tomato.
Rather the written description here says it is "honey-brown skin, orange-pink flesh, and a green seed mass."

Here is a photo of the cover of the paper copy, general circulation, 2016 Good Seed Catalog which on page 8 offers the "Thornburn's Terra Cotta Tomato."


The tomato is not offered anywhere else but page 8 in this catalog. It is not listed in the regular tomato section of this catalog. No other picture, and no photograph or description of this tomato is offered anywhere else in this catalog.

From the photograph provided at the link to another Baker Creek seed offer for "Thornburn's Terra Cotta Tomato" the tomato clearly does NOT conform to the painted image or the written description given in the 2016 Good Seed Catalog sent out by Baker Creek in response to their general catalog offer sent to previous customers via email a couple of months ago.

[travis]

I've grown hundreds of tomato varieties and evolving lines.

I've grown tomatoes from seeds bought from Baker Creek, as well as a dozen or more other commercial sources, as well as seeds provided by online acquaintances, local growers, seeds I've extracted from tomatoes bought at roadside stands, in grocery stores, from professional and hobby breeders, and from seeds I have developed myself.

Most all the seeds I've grown from commercial sources either closely matched or reasonably matched the descriptions given in the respective seed catalogs. A couple, not so much. Same comment concerning seeds I've received from fellow growers, professional breeders, and hobby breeders ... seldom have I been hoodwinked.

I've posted at online tomato discussion boards all over the Internet since 2005, argued with the best of you, become excited, disillusioned, reinvigorated, and finally completely laid back about this hobby.

Now, all I want is the facts, Jack. No more nonsense or bulls#!t.

The "chocolate" tomato shown in photograph provided by Baker Creek at the link provided by Carolyn (thank you, Carolyn) does not even come close to matching the written description OR the painted representation of "Thornburn's Terra Cotta Tomato" given in the 2016 Good Seed Catalog, where Baker Creek is asking 50c per seed for a tomato that essentially may be no different than beaucoup dozen other maroon tomatoes currently in circulation.

So, Jeremiah Gettle, give it to us straight up ... or not at all.

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by travis

I've grown hundreds of tomato varieties and evolving lines.

I've grown tomatoes from seeds bought from Baker Creek, as well as a dozen or more other commercial sources, as well as seeds provided by online acquaintances, local growers, seeds I've extracted from tomatoes bought at roadside stands, in grocery stores, from professional and hobby breeders, and from seeds I have developed myself.

Most all the seeds I've grown from commercial sources either closely matched or reasonably matched the descriptions given in the respective seed catalogs. A couple, not so much. Same comment concerning seeds I've received from fellow growers, professional breeders, and hobby breeders ... seldom have I been hoodwinked.

I've posted at online tomato discussion boards all over the Internet since 2005, argued with the best of you, become excited, disillusioned, reinvigorated, and finally completely laid back about this hobby.

Now, all I want is the facts, Jack. No more nonsense or bulls#!t.

The "chocolate" tomato shown in photograph provided by Baker Creek at the link provided by Carolyn (think you, Carolyn) does not even come close to matching the written description OR the painted representation of "Thornburn's Terra Cotta Tomato" given in the 2016 Good Seed Catalog, where Baker Creek is asking 50c per seed for a tomato that essentially may be no different than beaucoup dozen other maroon tomatoes currently is circulation.

So, Jeremiah Gettle, give it to us straight up ... or not at all.

Last paragraph above.

Yes Bill, I do think I'm Carolyn, and have been so since June of 1939.

Sorry, just couldn't help myself for noting that.

But I also noted above that I'm pretty sure that WWW sent the seeds to Baker Creek, note WWW's page for his Roughwood varieties that I also linked to, and sadly, Jere will believe almost anything WWW says and has for many years.

Carolyn

[travis]

Carolyn, I changed the typo. It should read, "THANK you, Carolyn" rather than "think"

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by travis

Carolyn, I changed the typo. It should read, "THANK you, Carolyn" rather than "think"

Got it, and THANK YOU,but while you were typing I edited that post to indicate WHY I was pretty sure that it was WWWwho sent the seeds to Baker Creek and that b'c Jere believes anything that WWW says and has for many years.

And I had previously linked toWWW's Roughwood collection to confirm that, at least IMO.

Carolyn, the thinker only when she is awake.

[travis]

With regard to believing without seeing ... one look at the photo of the maroon tomato that Baker Creek posted next to the painting of the "honey-brown" with "orange-pink" flesh should've cleared up that old "Show Me State" seeing is believing tradition Jere surely grew up with.

[jmsieglaff]

I've been thinking about this occasionally over the past couple weeks. By the sounds of it I've likely been hoodwinked. Guess I should have asked first and purchased later. Where does that likely leave the origins of the tomato? Who knows--some farmer's cross he stabilized and handed to WWW many years so? Maybe some breeding work WWW did with the goal of passing it off as this type, no clue, plausible I suppose. I've been debating whether or not to grow it or try another on my ever lengthening list of varieties I want to try. Ultimately I'm leaning toward growing it, it doesn't seem like many have grown whatever it is and maybe it is fantastic--just not exactly what it alleges. I suppose at least 1 data point from someone here @ TVille isn't going to hurt.

[Gazeofslate]

I'm growing Thorburn's terra-cotta in a container. Got the seeds from baker's creek. Although I have no idea whether or not if this is the real terra-cotta, it does have slightly fuzzy fruits. They're fuzzier when still immature but from what I can tell the ripe fruits retain a few hairs on them. I actually picked and ate my first ripe fruit today. It was medium sized, the color of the fruit indeed ressembles terra-cotta/red clay or what I'd call "terre cuite". The taste itself was rather bland, on the tart side and without much sweetness. I hope the first fruit was just a dud, if it's just what this variety is supposed to taste like, I'll just pull the vine. Cool name, cool story but that's about it really.
The plant itself grows super tall and wide, I really had troubles with that. I staked it twice as it outgrew my stakes and grew taller than my biggest stake. Two branches broke nonetheless so if you intend to grow that variety I'd recommend using a cage or some heavy support. Right now I have about 7 immature fruits on the vine.

This plant really gave me troubles... Not only it grew super tall and had branches that gave under their own weight (without any fruits on them mind you), the plants had bouts of septoria leaf spot despite being grown indoors and being very carefully watered... I did prune the lowest leaves to prevent disease even before the plant got septoria so you can imagine my surprise when I noticed the leaves developed these brown circular stains... Had to prune heavily to prevent further damages and the plant is down to three branches now.

I'll try to post some pics later as I forgot to upload them on my computer.

Edit : Here are a few pics of the fruits, both ripe and immature.

[dheideman]

I tried to start it this season, but it's been very much a problem plant for me. (My seeds were also from Baker Creek.) It sprouted and behaved normally as a very young plant, but quickly stalled out. After transplant, it did *nothing*, only one of the 3 plants grew at all, and that one still poorly.

All 3 varieties here are exactly the same age, sown and transplanted at the same time, into straw bales treated exactly the same way. The Tess' Land Race and my Project Tomato are both thriving and I just bagged the first blossoms on them. I decided to cull the Thoburn's.

[jmsieglaff]

Looks like we'll have at least multiple TVille data points. Mine is planted out but just very recently. Striking differences in your plants there--and not in a good way!

[Gazeofslate]

So, by the look of it this variety is just a dud for now... Out of two people that reported on it it doesn't sound very glorious. By the way, a quick update on mine : Tomatoes look stunted, they're still green but have stopped growing for a while now. New blossoms just die without even opening, leaves are starting to become brown on the outer edges... When touching the hairs on the stem, the smell isn't the same as before. I think the plant may just be dying now...
So, I just had a single tomato to judge the taste, and it tasted like crap. I'm really, really disappointed. I'm give the last tomatoes a chance to ripen before I rip that thing out. Huge disappointment. Guess I should have bought into the hype of the old heirloom from centuries ago being suddenly resurrected. It has been a very frustrating experience, the plant seems very sensitive to disease, my green tigers look super healthy despite the scraggly look that variety has, and they haven't suffer any disease despite being planted next to the Thorburn's.

[travis]

From the looks of the leaves in the different photos, and the various sliced and whole fruit.photos I've seen online recently, I'd say the current germplasm remains unstable.
Maybe one of the segregating lines will be better than the others.

[dheideman]

Further update: I'd shared seeds from my packet with two friends. Both had interruptions in their seedling stage. One was moving and lost about 70% of their seedlings; another had a heat mat go haywire and lost about 50%. In both cases, they lost all of their Thoburn's seedlings, while some varieties went unscathed and some had partial loss. It just doesn't seem to be a very hearty variety.

[jmsieglaff]

My plant is growing nicely and has an open flower cluster. The cluster has 10 flowers. Another cluster is developing.