Any tips to get flowers to set in temps over 90F?

[Barb_FL]

I also live in a double whammy area. Currently, our nights rarely make it below 74 and daytime temps run about 84. Our normal summer temps run about 90 during the day.

My last tomato is usually picked at the end of June early July. In prior years, I would roll the plants under the porch in the early afternoon to avoid the sun. I really don't know how much it extended the season.

I bought a package of seeds specifically for growing in containers in hot/humid areas. Honestly, they don't look better than other tomatoes I bought.

But, I recently planted seeds called Heatwave II which is suppose to do well even at 95 degrees. I would like to grow tomatoes year round, even if it were cherries.

Also, by the time my plants are bearing significant fruit, they are looking pretty ratty. Is that not the norm?

[Stvrob]

Originally Posted by ScottinAtlanta

Here is a business plan for someone: Harvest good pollen, and sell it by the vial to those us in high temp areas. When ours is denatured, we crack open the vials.

That's an idea worth exploring. I wonder if there is a carrier you could mix it with? Talc or cornstarch or what have you. And a miniaturized delivery system?

In fact you could breed a variety just for pollen harvesting! Potency and volume! Like a bull.

[Worth1]

Originally Posted by Stvrob

That's an idea worth exploring. I wonder if there is a carrier you could mix it with? Talc or cornstarch or what have you. And a miniaturized delivery system?

In fact you could breed a variety just for pollen harvesting! Potency and volume! Like a bull.

First you would have to educate the general public about the problem with pollen and high temps.

Most people I run across think I am lucky for the extremely long tomato growing season we have here in Texas.

Worth

[b54red]

I went out this morning early and watered my plants yet again and while doing so closely checked for any new fruit set since we have been having days in the 90s and nights in the 70s for a while now. I found quite a few new fruit on almost all the plants. Now that I am about over that crud that has kept me out of the garden for a while the plants are getting the water and nutrition they need. I did have quite a bit of blossom drop while sick because my plants got too dry and that is always the result when it is hot. Certain varieties are definitely setting better than others but I even got new fruits on both my Brandywine Sudduth's and some of the other large pink beefsteak varieties.

Bill

[z_willus_d]

I've got around 40+ tomato plants here in the Sac valley, CA. Most are grafted to Beaufort rootstock. I'm not sure if that could help or hurt with fruit set. So far, I haven't really seen a difference. When y'all talk about high 90's and fruit set concerns, I kind of sigh since we're getting 100+ temps regularly here. In fact, today Wunderground has us set to hit 107F. It's not just that fruit doesn't set in these temps, worse than that, I'm find most of my plants are literally burning. The corn will fold up and dry like unwatered grass (even though I water in the morning before work to a SWC), the cucumbers have to be shaded, else they droop within an hour of direct sunlight. I see some 6-week old tomato seedlings that have had all their new growth (and some of the middle growth) just wilt and then burn to a crisp. The few plants that get shaded by a large frond "banana" plant, don't show this despite setting in the same beds. I've been working tirelessly (in that same heat) to try and fashion some kind of structure (PVC based) to support shade cloth for these plants. So far, I haven't managed to create something that will work for my difficult, terraced beds with external rock/boulder soil that will not take a spike for support.

Yes, this heat is serious. And on top of that, our area is in a drought, so we must reduce our water usage by 20-25% from last year this time. Hey, but I increased my garden size. I feel the pain of the farmer, the would-be but I think not now farmer.
-n

[Delerium]

Naysen - we have been getting 100+ days for a few days now. Today its getting up to 105F. I feel your pain believe me. That is why i always try to get an early start on my tomatoes so i can catch those perfect tomato set temps. The only plant that i see that constantly sets in this heat - is Dana Dusky Rose grafted on to Hawaiian Pineapple and Italian heirloom. Those 2 varieties keep pumping tomatoes in this heat. And doesn't look like anything is going to stop it.

By the way, Burlap works good as a shade cloth to throw over the plants in this intense heat. I use it during the winter to keep the plants a bit warmer with the Agribon.

Once my new grafted plants are ready to plant i am going to start replacing the plants once i harvest most of my tomatoes. I don't need 10 feet tall unproductive tomato plants that won't set in this heat anyway. At least if i have new plants in the ground by the time the temps get cooler they will be ready to set. I think getting rid of plants earlier also prevents all the nasty disease that thrive in hot/humid times and end up in the soil.

[Dewayne mater]

Delerium - Did you ever try DDR ungrafted? If so, how did it do in hot weather fruit set?

I'm very interested that you aren't keeping you plants going, but starting over in Cali. I know Bill does that in a hot and humid climate, but figured with Cali's dry weather, one plant per hole would make the year. Have you done this in the past? How do your new plants do when set out in the high temps you are describing?

I've learned how to keep my many of my plants alive through summer, yet, they have been heat ravaged and disease addled and sprayed again and again. I'm liking the thought of new plants and a do over, but haven't taken that plunge in a major way, usually only growing a small number of new fall plants or focusing my efforts on the best looking summer survivors and getting them geared back up for another run in the fall.

Dewayne mater

[Delerium]

Dewayne Mater - Yes i did a replant last year around June 20th and they did exceptionally well. The only difference between last year and this year is that i started this years grafts from seed. Last year i did the grafts from cuttings of the best productive varieties. While last year 2nd crop did great, the disease carried over on to my grafts later on in to the year. I am hoping to avoid that with the new starts so the plants can last much longer this time. Also the quality of the fruits were just as good when the plants are at its prime. So i was constantly getting large fruit production instead of smaller fruit that tends to drag on with plants that are getting a pounding from the heat. While re-growing new plants is a bit of a chore I don't mind it.

I have grown Dana Dusky Rose ungrafted and its no where near as productive as the grafted version. I got the seeds from Steve from Heritage seeds, and he did mention that Dana Dusky rose wasn't as productive as some of the other similar varieties which i tend to agree. The Grafted Dana Dusky Rose on Hawaiian Pineapple (also seeds from Heritage seeds) has really performed well. My main goal was to just enjoy both varieties on the same plant (and possibly getting intentional crosses from the 2 varieties), but the unintentional yield boost caught me off guard. For the fall crop I am also testing the reverse version where Dana Dusky Rose is the RS while Hawaiian Pineapple is the Scion variety. Just to see if i get any fun side effects.

[Stvrob]

I wonder how a container grown plant would fare in the heat if I were to bury a coil of 3/8" poly in the soil along the inside edge of the container and circulate chilled water thru the coil in a closed loop. One could scavenge a little compressor from one of those mini fridges, which are often discarded with a functional compressor. Rig up a way to immerse the evaporator in a small tank of water, and get one of those tiny circulation pumps to pump it thru the coil and back to the evaporator. You might need a corrosion inhibiting additive since the water will be in contact with the evaporator.

So who thinks keeping the root zone of a tomato plant and some constant temperature could help summertime production? And if so, what would be an ideal temperature for the roots?

[aclum]

Hi,

Exploring the shade cloth/cooling thing a bit more,...

I went ahead and ordered some (118" x 50') Agribon 15 from Johnny's. The blurb:

http://www.johnnyseeds.com/p-5455-ag...-118-x-50.aspx

mentions using it for warm weather crops. It was $20.95 with free shipping using coupon code 11-1005. Light transmission is 90%. My aluminet shade cloth is nominally 40% shading but it's stretched pretty tight so it's probably closer to 30-35% shading and I can use the extra 10% shade the agribon will give me.

I'll probably drape it over my aluminet shade cloth, and lightly spray cold water over the top of everything to see how it works at keeping things cool. I'm hoping that between the agribon and aluminet there will be enough surface tension (??) to sort of trap in moisture long enough to capture some of the heat and evaporate (evaporative cooling?) rather than dripping through and wetting the foliage.

I figure it's a relatively inexpensive experiment and worth a try. If nothing else, I should get an extra 10% shading.

Naysen,

When my brother and I first moved here, we had an electrician over to do a bit of work and one of the things we had him do was to drill through our concrete patio (with a gravel underlayment) to install a 6' long metal grounding rod for my brother's ham radio. All but about 4" is sunk into the ground. The rod is 3/4" diameter. The electrician used a pretty massive drill type thing about the size of a jackhammer (which he, of course, had to go back to the shop to fetch ). Also I had a friend who made a bookcase out of concrete blocks who attached things together with bolts he put through holes he drilled in the concrete blocks using an ordinary power drill with a special bit. No problems with the concrete blocks shattering or chipping, etc.

So, here's what I might do in your situation... DIY or have someone drill holes in your concrete retaining walls or wherever you want your uprights . Then pound in EMT conduit to act as sleeves extending about 2-3' into the ground. I'd recommend using something like rebar for your shade cloth verticals to get the strength you'll need in high winds. You could paint them if they were too ugly . With strong enough bars and enough of the bar held within the sleeve, you could maybe get away without any top crossbars (unless you wanted to cantilever the shade cloth beyond the pole locations). If you have enough depth leeway in your EMT sleeves, you could raise or lower the rebar and secure at a given height using a hose clamp at the top of the sleeve to prevent the bar from slipping down further into the hole. That way you can adjust the slant of your shade cloth to "follow the sun." With this system, it should also be easy to disassemble everything when you no longer needed the shade cloth.

Just an idea...

Anne

[OkieDan]

Same heat/humidity problems in Oklahoma. There isn't a tomato on the planet that will set fruit when it gets hot here in OK. Last year I tried 4 kinds of determinate heat tolerant tomatoes. Their production was good, and they lived until winter set in, but their late production was terrible. I guess bc they were determinate, they did not have much growing left in them.
I have grown some indeterminate tomatoes that produced well in the fall, but I think I am going to grow tomatoes that are medium to early at production, and then replant in late July for a fall crop. I plan to root new starts from the tomatoes that produce and taste the best. Many gardeners in Texas grow 2crops of tomatoes.

[aclum]

Hi Again,

Just got a phone call from Johnny's and the coupon code I used for free shipping IS NOT VALID. (I got it from retailmenot.com). It's an old code. Anyway, Johnny's going to ship it to me for half price shipping as a courtesy.

Anne

[b54red]

Although I haven't grown Dana's Dusky Rose as a graft a couple of years ago while our drought was still going strong it was one of the most productive tomatoes during the worst summer heat. The fruit weren't huge but it continued to set despite 100 degree days and the flavor was much more intense than earlier in the year when it was cooler.

Bill

[z_willus_d]

Hi Anne, thanks for the detailed write-up. Honestly, I am not terribly mechanically inclined. In fact, I'm terrible with civil engineering and mechanics. It's just not my forte. I prove this to myself over and over with just about every project with mechanical, 3-dimensional aspects, which I invariably biff to the N'th. I kind of get what you are describing, but even with the right tools, I don't have a vision for how it would work with my retaining wall blocks, which are not a flat even surface and in my ground environment, which is not more than gravel, sand and boulders of varying sizes.

I've mostly finished my first PVC shade enclosure for my 5 EarthTainers on the patio. These are only growing corn and cucumbers, so it's been a lot of work for very little potential produce. I based this first project off of JD's rig in response #9 here: http://forum.earthbox.com/index.php?...30596#msg30596

I'm not happy with the value, since it cost nearly $80 all told (not including shade-cloth). It should last for some years though. I'll try and post a picture of the finished product later this week. I have another $80 structure in the works for my eggplant and pepper bed. That one will only go 6' tall. I'll probably try and stretch shade cloth over the tomato cages to just cover the tops of the plants for some relief. The cloth is a bear to work with.

-naysen

[Dewayne mater]

Naysen - I am definitely not mechanically inclined and chose an extremely low tech way to use shade cloth. First, get a shade cloth that fits your space and order it from somewhere that puts grommets regularly spaced around the entire cloth and on all corners. Second get bamboo poles or the ones I use, the rebar with green plastic covering that are 8 feet long I think (biggest ones). Drive a foot into the ground on the corners an inch or two wider than the length of the cloth, lay out shade cloth and attach on each corner using zip ties at the height you need. About 2/3 of the way up the rebar poles, tie a light weight rope and put another zip tie below it that will keep it from slipping down. Stake the poles back and towards the outside making sure to pull the cloth taught.

I'm lucky that my gardens are on the side of the house where no one has to look it this, but, with the exception of looking a little shabby, this works terrifically with the worst thing being a high wind might cause the cloth to slip off of top. My plants get morning sun, which they like, but by 11 a.m., they are in 50% sun for the rest of the day they are much happier than they were in full sun.

Are you using earthboxes for your tomatoes too after your heroic efforts last year in the battle of diseases?

DM