Epsom Salt(s)

[WVTomatoMan]

Originally Posted by Vespertino

Here's a link to the thread that explains a little more about what I'm doing. I've planted brandwines (pl) and sungolds in two 18-gallon earthtainers. Texas had really wonky cold snaps well into april, while I brought the tomatoes indoors overnight they were outside in 40 degree weather. From the cold I had a lot of blossom drop and stunted growth. The past 2-3 weeks have finally warmed up for good, and the tomato plants are responding with a growth spurt but it's too early to tell about fruit set- though they do have them. My sungolds are setting fruit well, while my brandywine is a slow-poke (only 4 fruits growing so far). The brandywines had a head-start on the sungolds, so they're bigger and have very lush, green leaves and thick stems. This is my first time growing tomatoes so I'm excited to see how things work out. I have an ongoing picture thread of my newbie tomato growing attempts if you want to see what the plants look like.

I followed the links. I see that someone else has used that much Epsom salt (in conjuction with dolomitic lime) and had success. But, remember what I said each gardener has to find what works for them. For example take a look at the attached pics of a couple of my container plants. They didn't have any Epsom salt. I'm not in Texas, but I acheived arguably good results growing in a container.

It looks to me like you're doing well and off to a great start. Keep up with the toothbrush. Being in a protected area like that the wind isn't going to help much with fruit set.

Good luck.

Randy

[WVTomatoMan]

Originally Posted by Urbanfarmer

My question would be......what has prompted you to think your tomatoes need magnesium sulfate? Do you have a soil test indicating your soil is deficient in magnesium and/or sulfur? If your soil isn't, then you can easily end up doing more harm than good.

Tomatoes need a properly formulated, fully complete nutrient. Provide that, and you won't be guessing any longer.

Several people brought this up. I'm not singling you out, but instead am responding in general. There could be several reasons to add things to one's soil in moderation. I'm going to list just a few.

- People want to do what someone else did to acheive similar results. Last year I added a tablespoon of Epsom salts to each of my planting holes because we'd had droughts the 2 years previous and I thought the plants would need a little something extra if we had a similar growing season. As it turned out we had a good growing season last year and I didn't need it. Anyhow, I won the tomato tasting event at the local TomatoFest. If someone asked me what I added to the planting hole I would have told them well composted horse manure and Epsom salt. What if a similar thing happened to the poster? All they knew is they wanted tomatoes that tasted like that and the person used Epsom salts but didn't know how much so they asked.

BTW, I won 4 of the top 5 spots. Honestly, I've won other years and other contests in which I didn't use Epsom salts. Anyhow here is a video of the last segment of my talk during which I was presented the gift certificate for winning. I think it is in this video - I'm at work and can't look at youTube videos - if it's not in this one let me know and I'll supply the correct link.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=pd6Cw6dakR0


- Someone might want to brag that they have the biggest, greenest, bushiest tomato plants in the neighborhood.

- To acheive certain results. Minnie Zaccaria swears by Miracle Grow. As I recall she told me she used it once a week. She's going for the big ones and she knows what she's doing. I think she's won the biggest tomato contest in NJ like 6 times. My bet is if we check her soil test we'll find that her soil is not lacking in any of the things that Miracle Grow supplies.

- Most people including me add fertilizer. I use an organic tomato fertilizer twice a year that is 6-2-2. My soil tests indicate acceptable levels of NPK.

Speaking of NPK, some people are acting like Epsom Salt is some foreign thing. The k in npk stands for potassium (K). Potassium is an element. Magnesium (Mg) is an element too. In fact it is an essential element in chlorophyl. Chlorophyl is essential in photosynthesis.

It really comes back to what I said earlier each gardener has to find what works for them. For some people adding nothing works for them so that is what they should do. For other people adding amendments works for them so that is what they should do.


Randy

[fredx]

Main reason I was asking is -- does it do any good.. If it does , I want to use it. I know folks who have planted all kinds of plants from shrubs to trees to flowers to vegtables and have never added anything OR even fertilized , and their stuff looks pretty good to me. I have read many folks who use stuff( weather it be fert , minerals , etc) but never say how much they use-- what good is that??

So I want to thank all the folks who have contributed to this thread and hope the discussion continues

fred

[Vespertino]

Originally Posted by WVTomatoMan

I followed the links. I see that someone else has used that much Epsom salt (in conjuction with dolomitic lime) and had success. But, remember what I said each gardener has to find what works for them. For example take a look at the attached pics of a couple of my container plants. They didn't have any Epsom salt. I'm not in Texas, but I acheived arguably good results growing in a container.

It looks to me like you're doing well and off to a great start. Keep up with the toothbrush. Being in a protected area like that the wind isn't going to help much with fruit set.

Good luck.

Randy

Thanks! Your plants look great. I love reading about all the different things people are trying out with their gardens. It seems like there are a million ways to come up with healthy plants in the end. Container planting is really interesting to me since one has such a high level of control with the growing medium, and it's ideal for experimenting since you can isolate soil changes to one specific plant.

Part of why I decided to follow what Raybo's friend had done (with the extra epsom salts and dolomite lime) is that, much like his friend, I'm also using 18 gallon containers. These are much smaller than the 31 gallon recommended for earthtainer size, and I was going to be cramming 2 tomato plants in each one. I was very concerned the roots might get crowded and compete for resources since the soil volume would be much less. I looked for tips on how to make the 18 gal size work as well as possible and using the extra lime & salt had interesting results for Raybo also. So I said "oh what da heck, why not give it a try?", but I did reduce the amount of salt by a half cup since Raybo mentioned he found a slightly higher incidence of BER in his experiment.

I just found a new fruit starting to swell on the brandywine, but so far it's not very prolific. But if I continue to run into problems with fruits setting going forward (I can't blame the cold snaps from now on), I'll probably cut back on the epsom salt next year since it's clearly not a necessity for healthy plants.

Either way I'll keep you posted on how well the salts work for my 18 gallon earthtainers. The results would be small-container specific, so I don't know how that would translate to those growing in the ground or in raised beds. I'm sure the rules are a bit different depending on how one grows their tomatoes- not to mention climate.

[rnewste]

The trials I did a few years ago with Epsom Salts were in a SOILESS Mix - not relevant to in-ground growing. I found in containers, a mixed bag related to tomatoes - better production, but a higher incidence of BER, so net net, no appreciable benefit.

For cukes however, addition of 1/2 cup Epsom Salts into my 31 gallon EarthTainers did drive production up measurably. So I continue its use today:



Raybo

[JamesL]

Originally Posted by rnewste

The trials I did a few years ago with Epsom Salts were in a SOILESS Mix - not relevant to in-ground growing. I found in containers, a mixed bag related to tomatoes - better production, but a higher incidence of BER, so net net, no appreciable benefit.

For cukes however, addition of 1/2 cup Epsom Salts into my 31 gallon EarthTainers did drive production up measurably. So I continue its use today:



Raybo

Perfect "reminder" timing for me Ray. Have cukes going into 'tainers this weekend.

[dice]

Epsom salt is mainly a magnesium supplement (it does have sulfur, too,
but most soils, composts, etc have plenty of that). The URL below has
some discussion of the relationships between calcium, magnesium,
potassium, soil pH, and growing plants:
http://www.spectrumanalytic.com/supp.../Mg_Basics.htm

Epsom salt is water soluble, so you can foliar feed with it. Take two
plants that look about the same (so they are getting more or less
the same nutrients, water, sunlight, etc, and one is not naturally
significantly more vigorous than the other). Dissolve a teaspoon of
epsom salt in a gallon of water, and spray one plant with it. Check
the plants after a week. Is there a significant difference?

If the plant that you sprayed looks a lot better than the other plant,
you can probably add a tablespoon of epsom salt to the soil or
container mix in all of the plants that have the same growing medium
and fertilizers as the plant that you sprayed without doing them any
harm and perhaps doing them some good. If the plant that you sprayed
looks the same as the other plant after a week, they are probably
already getting enough magnesium.

[Tracydr]

I put half a handful of Epsom salts in each hole last year. I had very beautiful plants, at least until the spider mites hit.
Not a single fruit, not one, off of 24 plants except for a handful of Matt's Wild Cherry and Sungold.
I think my soil doesn't need Epsom salts. I stick to turning gypsum and sulphur into the soil each fall. Some Azomite in the spring. And organic fertilizers throughout the season.

[Vespertino]

Just wanted to post an update, though I'm not sure how useful the info is. I lost 3 new fruit sets on 2 brandywine red PL plants to BER, however, a pair of house finches were picking off my tomato flowers and new fruits so I can't say what the ratio of BER loss was. My sungolds (planted in the same mix with epsom salt) are going great but I get the feeling those might be BER resistant to begin with. So in the end I'm not sure if the BER on the Brandywine plants is due to the extra epsom salt or not. An owl decoy and holographic ribbons but an end to the bird attacks, but lost a LOT of potential tomatoes due to those little winged menaces