Amazon Chocolate or Cherokee Chocolate? - Page 2

Tropicalgrower · November 9, 2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by parah

Amazon Chocolate (potato Leaf) has become my #1 tomato plant.
I am in Thailand so growing conditions are a bit like Florida.

Hot humid weather, brutal tropical sun, year round disease and endless bugs.
I have trialed 50 varieties so far and Amazon Chocolate is the best
for tolerating horrible growing conditions and pumping out big
tasty tomatoes. For comparison Big Beef has never made 1 tomato after 4 attempts.

This year ALL my black tomato plants died before fruiting because of Grey Mold except...Amazon Chocolate, it is still going strong!

What a marvelous blend of disease resistance, heat tolerance, vigor, and taste.
THANK YOU Camochef for telling everyone about Amazon Chocolate.

Parah,

It's good the hear that you like the Amazon Chocolate.Maybe I should try and get some seeds of that one for next season.Your season is starting right about now isn't it?

I'm in the Philippines,and our weather probably mirrors each others.I have had good success if I get my Toms started and in the ground by mid Nov,but the earlier the better as long as a Monsoon doesn't mess with things.I have most of mine in the ground now,although I did receive a few hearts in the mail and have them sprouted and under lights right now.

I have Cowlick Brandywine..Barlow Jap...Liz Birt...Danas Dusky Rose...Purple Dog Creek..one lone Tarasenko 6 (the only seed that germed out of 20 seeds)..a lone Bulgarian Triumph (another bad germination)...Opalka..Jersey Devil.

Cherokee Chocolate grew well for me here,but had very little flavor....same for Boxcar Willie...Arkansas Traveler and many many others.

I also have a few cherry types in the ground..Black Cherry..Tommy Toe and Matts Wild Cherry,that I rely on later in the season when our standards quit setting fruit.

Like you,I have my seeds sent to family in the US and they then forward to me...unless they are coming to visit anyway.

I have a cousin in Thailand.He has lived there for many years with his wife.

I still owe Camo a debt of gratitude for getting me started on the Cowlicks!!

Trop.

roper2008 · November 9, 2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by tedln

I got my seed from Roper 2008 last year and she marked the little baggie with the seed as PL. I have no idea where she got her seed but suspect the seed she sent me is from her garden. I am looking forward to growing it. I got it to late too grow last year and didn't have room for it this year.

Ted

Ted, I have never gotten around to growing AC. The seeds
are commercial. I bought them from Diane's Seeds. Maybe
she got them from Camo. She did list them as PL. I bought
them in 2010.

**carolyn137** · November 9, 2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by roper2008

Ted, I have never gotten around to growing AC. The seeds
are commercial. I bought them from Diane's Seeds. Maybe
she got them from Camo. She did list them as PL. I bought
them in 2010.

If you lookrf at posts 2,3 and 4, you'll see that there's both PL and RL versions and then Steve ( Heritage) chimed in and said he knew of FOUR different versions.

And if you look at Tania's page for it, which I think I linked to above, maybe not, she clearly says that Amazon Chocolate is genetically unstable.

And at different message sites since Lisa at Amishland first listed it, I've seen folks getting several different versions.

So what was once PL can go to RL and the reverse. Tastes for the different versions can also vary b'c it's due to mutation that there's flip flop in leaf form and there are several ways that those mutations can occur and thus the results. If it's a spontaneous mutation then all is the same except for leaf form, but if the mutation is due to DNA changes such as repeats, inversions, looping out, etc., then more than one gene can be involved which can then change several traits at one time, such as taste, fruit size, etc.

Hope that helps.

Carolyn, who has not grown AC, probably won't ever grow it for several reasons, but has been following it from the get go after Lisa first listed it.

bwaynef · November 9, 2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heritage

Ted,
There are 3 variations of Amazon Chocolate seed being distributed (that I know of) and there may be more. That means you have to try 4 varieties.

I think he mean 3 varieties of AC + Cherokee Chocolate, since the OP was asking if it was worth growing both AC & CC.

**carolyn137** · November 9, 2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by bwaynef

I think he mean 3 varieties of AC + Cherokee Chocolate, since the OP was asking if it was worth growing both AC & CC.

I had said that Steve said four varieties but stand corrected, so yes, it would be the three versions of AC plus Cherokee Chocolate of which there are no other versions and CC is genetically stable.

Carolyn

November 9, 2012

Carolyn,

I will germinate six of the AC seeds I received from Roper which came from Dianes seeds. I will eliminate any which germinate as RL and plant only the PL seedlings. Since some people consider the variety unstable can I grow the PL version through enough generations to consider it a stable variety if I no longer get any RL seedlings.

On the other hand, is the genetic instability of leaf form with the AC considered a genetic trait of the variety rendering it unstable for perpetuity? I guess another way of asking the same question would be "Is the leaf form instability of the AC a stable trait of the AC?"

Ted

parah · November 9, 2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScottinAtlanta

If it can survive in Thailand, it might survive in Atlanta. What variety of AC did you grow?

Hi ScottinAtlanta,
I ordered Amazon Chocolate seeds from:
http://www.dianeseeds.com/tomato-amazon-chocolate.html

They seem to be stable for me, all 7 plants have been potato leaf.

parah · November 9, 2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tropicalgrower

Parah,

It's good the hear that you like the Amazon Chocolate.Maybe I should try and get some seeds of that one for next season.Your season is starting right about now isn't it?

I have Cowlick Brandywine..Barlow Jap...Purple Dog Creek...Tarasenko6...Bulgarian Triumph...Opalka..
Trop.

Yes, now is early winter in Thailand, no rain for 6 months and night time lows cool enough for easy fruit set. The brutal hot season and monsoon season was too much for all but Amazon Chocolate and the cherry tomatoes.

All the varieties you mentioned (I edited your quote) have been tried before and are growing right now but Amazon Chocolate beats them all!

Curiously Iditarod Red is doing very well. I though it had little chance since it was bred in Alaska! It is rare that the first flowers set fruit here, but Iditarod Red is doing it, and is a disease free beautiful little plant. You might want to try it. Tazmanian Chocolate, Wild Fred and Rosella Purple struggled with low production and died.

I hope there will be a dwarf based on Amazon Chocolate!!!

parah · November 9, 2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by camochef

Amazon Chocolate...no contest!

Want to try a really tasty black...Dana's Dusky Rose!
Enjoy!
Camo

If Camochef likes it, I want to try it.
Finally there are seeds available for Dana's Dusky Rose (I've been waiting a year)
http://heritagetomatoseed.com/heirlo...as-dusky-rose/

Is there a way to donate to the Camochef Tomato Research Fund.
I have certainly benefited.

parah · November 9, 2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by carolyn137

so yes, it would be the three versions of Amazon Chocolate
Carolyn

Hi Carolyn,
Can you suggest why Amazon Chocolate Potato Leaf is so tolerant to foliage disease? Are there other tomatoes with this level of disease resistance? So far Amazon Chocolate is more foliage disease resistant than the hybrids I have tried: Big Beef, Beefmaster, Jet Setter, Momotaro...

I have read that potato leaf plants tend to be more resistant to foliage disease. Is there another factor because Amazon Chocolate is more disease resistant than other Potato Leaf plants I have tried: Japanese Trifele, Lucky Cross, KBX, Gary O'Sena...

goodwin · November 9, 2012

I've grown most of those and heard that PL varieties are more resistant, and I've seen some evidence of that. I like Indian Stripe, which Carolyn was kind enough to send me a sample of.
In general, though, I've observed cherry varieties are more disease resistant regardless of leaf type.
Lee

roper2008 · November 11, 2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by goodwin

I've grown most of those and heard that PL varieties are more resistant, and I've seen some evidence of that. I like Indian Stripe, which Carolyn was kind enough to send me a sample of.
In general, though, I've observed cherry varieties are more disease resistant regardless of leaf type.
Lee

Most of my PL's get some kind of dark grayish leaves. I think
it is grey mold. Only the PL's get this in my garden. Weird.

goodwin · November 11, 2012

It sounds like a fungus. The humidity is very low here and we rarely see that sort of thing. I wonder if denser foliage - which would limit air circulation - could be a contributing factor?
Lee

camochef · November 12, 2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by parah

If Camochef likes it, I want to try it.
Finally there are seeds available for Dana's Dusky Rose (I've been waiting a year)
http://heritagetomatoseed.com/heirlo...as-dusky-rose/

Is there a way to donate to the Camochef Tomato Research Fund.
I have certainly benefited.

Parah,
Dana's Dusky Rose has done very well in my gardens here in south central Pa., for years. They aren't as large as the Gigantic Amazon Chocolates but they more than make up for it in taste.
I hope they do well for you in your part of the world.
enjoy!
Camo

parah · November 15, 2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by camochef

Parah,
Dana's Dusky Rose has done very well in my gardens here in south central Pa., for years. They aren't as large as the Gigantic Amazon Chocolates but they more than make up for it in taste.
I hope they do well for you in your part of the world.
enjoy!
Camo

Thank you Camochef,
Half the plants in my garden come from your wonderful yearly tomato reviews.
I ordered some Maxifort seeds for rootstock. I have no grafting skill but I will try to get Dana's Dusky Rose grafted. I learn more from your garden than from mine! Hmmm, I wonder if grafting Amazon Chocolate is redundant?

I know you prefer bigger tomatoes, have you tried any of the Dwarf tomato plants? Are the fruit too small for you?

November 9, 2012	#21
tedln Guest Posts: n/a	Carolyn, I will germinate six of the AC seeds I received from Roper which came from Dianes seeds. I will eliminate any which germinate as RL and plant only the PL seedlings. Since some people consider the variety unstable can I grow the PL version through enough generations to consider it a stable variety if I no longer get any RL seedlings. On the other hand, is the genetic instability of leaf form with the AC considered a genetic trait of the variety rendering it unstable for perpetuity? I guess another way of asking the same question would be "Is the leaf form instability of the AC a stable trait of the AC?" Ted

November 9, 2012	#26
goodwin Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Espanola, New Mexico Posts: 606	I've grown most of those and heard that PL varieties are more resistant, and I've seen some evidence of that. I like Indian Stripe, which Carolyn was kind enough to send me a sample of. In general, though, I've observed cherry varieties are more disease resistant regardless of leaf type. Lee

November 11, 2012	#28
goodwin Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Espanola, New Mexico Posts: 606	It sounds like a fungus. The humidity is very low here and we rarely see that sort of thing. I wonder if denser foliage - which would limit air circulation - could be a contributing factor? Lee