question re: synthetic and organic ferts - Page 2

fortyonenorth · June 18, 2012

Unfortunately, synthetic fertilizers have been unfairly maligned by the "organic" movement. Unlike synthetic pesticides, which are for the most part poisonous chemicals, synthetic ferts are (generally speaking) industrially produced compounds made from naturally occurring minerals. Chilean nitrate, for example, is fossilized seabird guano - pretty natural from my point of view. Many sources of synthetic nitrogen are produced by capturing atmospheric nitrogen. Synthetic phosphates are often produced by reacting naturally occurring rock phosphorus with naturally occurring sulphuric acid so that the phosphorus is immediately available for plant use.

As Feldon pointed out, "organic" makes a lot of sense when you're growing in ground - because it is a annual investment in improving your soil. It's possible to grow organically in containers, but it's definitely more challenging. If you choose to grow using synthetic fertilizers, don't beat yourself up - there's absolutely nothing wrong with that.

Sun City Linda · June 18, 2012

Thanks 41 for great info. An no, I am absolutely NOT beating myself up. I have only been on the forums for a little over a year and learned SO MUCH. To me, and only to me, the idea of "building soil" in a container, much less and EB is an oxymoron.

Again, certainly possible and I applaud those who do it. I am surely not trying to activate a synthetic / organic debate.

It is of great interest to know how others grow in containers though. Thanks for all the input.

janezee · June 18, 2012

I'm grateful for all this information. I'm growing in containers (not SW) for the second time ever,
and would like to have better success than I did 6 years ago.

If I'd known then what I've been reading now, my driveway would look like Craig's by now......

(nctomatoman)

j

Sun City Linda · June 18, 2012

Yes, as I have said before, every gardener in the world WANTS to grow organic. Its a no brainer. But it is not exactly EZ in containers. Something it takes some of us a while to figure out!

bdank · June 18, 2012

I'm doing a side-by-side test in my earthboxes where I'm comparing a generic 10-10-10 against two organic fertilizers. So far, the 10-10-10 is out preforming the organics. Like Linda, I'm considering switching all of my earthboxes to a synthetic a fertilizer next year.

Here's the thread about my test on the earthbox forum.

RayR · June 18, 2012

bdank, you wrote at the EB forum, "All the fertilizer was put into a knee high stocking and buried in the middle between the two plants."
I have no experience with SWC's, just traditional containers and in-ground, but it seems to me a highly inefficient method of delivering nutrients to the plant roots with a granular organic fertilizer as Tomato-Tone or Tomato's Alive!. Granular organic fertilizers are for the most part not water soluble, the organic nutrient compounds have to be broken down in to plant available inorganic forms by soil bacteria and fungi and that happens much faster and more efficiently for the entire root system over time if the organic fertilizer is distributed evenly throughout the media.

Sun City Linda · June 18, 2012

RayR - There in lies one of the many unique problems to growing organically in an EB. In the EB system, solid ferts are not distributed but are placed in a strip. Specifically, top watering or rain is a no-no. The water is wicked upward from the reservoir. Synthetics are often housed in a knee high nylon for easy removal. I did not place my Tomato Tone in a nylon stocking and got dismal results anyway. If I were not feeding with liquid ferts I am not sure I would have any maters!

RayR · June 18, 2012

Linda, then you did mix Tomato-Tone throughout the media in prepping your containers?
That's what I do in standard containers for peppers and eggplant and it works great. I use liquid Fish/Seaweed and molasses as supplements during the flowering/fruiting stage as a drench and also as a foliar.

Sun City Linda · June 19, 2012

No, I have always used it as a strip per EB instructions. Next year when I replant if there is any left over, I mix the left over in and add 3 cups of new organics in a strip. I have mixed TT into my containers and also supplent with fish/seaweed.

June 18, 2012	#16
fortyonenorth Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: NW Indiana Posts: 1,150	Unfortunately, synthetic fertilizers have been unfairly maligned by the "organic" movement. Unlike synthetic pesticides, which are for the most part poisonous chemicals, synthetic ferts are (generally speaking) industrially produced compounds made from naturally occurring minerals. Chilean nitrate, for example, is fossilized seabird guano - pretty natural from my point of view. Many sources of synthetic nitrogen are produced by capturing atmospheric nitrogen. Synthetic phosphates are often produced by reacting naturally occurring rock phosphorus with naturally occurring sulphuric acid so that the phosphorus is immediately available for plant use. As Feldon pointed out, "organic" makes a lot of sense when you're growing in ground - because it is a annual investment in improving your soil. It's possible to grow organically in containers, but it's definitely more challenging. If you choose to grow using synthetic fertilizers, don't beat yourself up - there's absolutely nothing wrong with that.

June 18, 2012	#17
Sun City Linda Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: SoCal Inland Posts: 2,705	Thanks 41 for great info. An no, I am absolutely NOT beating myself up. I have only been on the forums for a little over a year and learned SO MUCH. To me, and only to me, the idea of "building soil" in a container, much less and EB is an oxymoron. Again, certainly possible and I applaud those who do it. I am surely not trying to activate a synthetic / organic debate. It is of great interest to know how others grow in containers though. Thanks for all the input.

June 18, 2012	#18
janezee Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Whidbey Island, WA Zone 7, Sunset 5 Posts: 931	I'm grateful for all this information. I'm growing in containers (not SW) for the second time ever, and would like to have better success than I did 6 years ago. If I'd known then what I've been reading now, my driveway would look like Craig's by now...... (nctomatoman) j

June 18, 2012	#20
bdank Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Virginia Posts: 51	I'm doing a side-by-side test in my earthboxes where I'm comparing a generic 10-10-10 against two organic fertilizers. So far, the 10-10-10 is out preforming the organics. Like Linda, I'm considering switching all of my earthboxes to a synthetic a fertilizer next year. Here's the thread about my test on the earthbox forum.

June 18, 2012	#21
RayR Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Cheektowaga, NY Posts: 2,466	bdank, you wrote at the EB forum, "All the fertilizer was put into a knee high stocking and buried in the middle between the two plants." I have no experience with SWC's, just traditional containers and in-ground, but it seems to me a highly inefficient method of delivering nutrients to the plant roots with a granular organic fertilizer as Tomato-Tone or Tomato's Alive!. Granular organic fertilizers are for the most part not water soluble, the organic nutrient compounds have to be broken down in to plant available inorganic forms by soil bacteria and fungi and that happens much faster and more efficiently for the entire root system over time if the organic fertilizer is distributed evenly throughout the media.

June 19, 2012	#24
Sun City Linda Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: SoCal Inland Posts: 2,705	No, I have always used it as a strip per EB instructions. Next year when I replant if there is any left over, I mix the left over in and add 3 cups of new organics in a strip. I have mixed TT into my containers and also supplent with fish/seaweed.