A clearer view of the Brandywine histories?

[camochef]

While I didn't start my own tomato patch till the late 50's; that's the 1950's, I did a lot in my step-dad's gardens earlier. Also helped in his sisters gardens around the corner. So probably started around 1953-54. We grew mostly large beefsteak shaped red tomatoes. As did almost all the neighbors.
I remember my dad (stepdad), saving seeds from the largest and best tasting tomatoes to be used for next years gardens. What I don't remember is anyone bagging blossoms. No one seemed the least bit concerned with cross pollination. I'm sure this was the attitude not only in our neighborhoods but throughout the country.
I'd be willing to bet that those along the Brandywine river in Pennsylvania, or over in Lancaster, Pa., or even Lancaster, Ohio for that matter weren't bagging blossoms either. Now, granted there weren't the varieties being grown back then like there are today, but still, I'm inclined to believe that there was quite a hodgepodge of crossed varieties.
Back in the days of early tomato growing, there were no hybrids, everything was heirlooms or open pollinated. It wasn't till after WW2 that hybrids came on the scene. People were leaving the family farms and moving into urban areas and seed companies prospered selling them seeds for small family plots instead of having them handed down from generation to generation as the had in the past. It was much easier to plunk down a few cents in the local hardware store and get seeds to plant your garden.
I don't recall seeing or hearing about people bagging blossoms until...the late 1990's maybe even the beginning of this century. I know I didn't nor did anyone I knew. Most people ordered seeds from Burpees and a few other companies back in the later part of the last century, as we didn't have all these seed companies and home business dealers that we have today.
Therefore we have Brandywine, Pink Brandywine, Brandywine Sudduths, Brandywine Glicks, Brandywine Stumps, Cowlick's Brandywine, (which I take responsibilty for creating and adding to the confusion), Yellow Brandywine, Red Brandywine, Black Brandywine, True Black Brandywine.
Then add in the different strains, Landis, Platfoot, crosses like Brandywine OTV, Dora, Liz Birt, Gary O'Sena, Bear Creek, and varients like the recently discovered Cowlick's Brandywine R.L. and add Ed's Millenium, JD's Special C-Tex, Earl's Faux, Stump of the world and who knows how many others and it's no wonder people get so confused when the word Brandywine surfaces.
Unless someone invents a time machine, I don't think we'll ever get the answers, but we can grow the different "Brandywines" and enjoy every bite or slice, however you prefer. I prefer mine with a little Zatarains Creole Seasoning.
Camo

[Bama mater]

Originally Posted by camochef

While I didn't start my own tomato patch till the late 50's; that's the 1950's,

Thats funny.

Thanks for the Cowlicks, They're fantastic.

[camochef]

Originally Posted by Bama mater

Thats funny.

Thanks for the Cowlicks, They're fantastic.

And thank you for those R.L. and the replacement seeds plus others after the stray dog incident. Have a Happy and Healthy New Year and a wonderful season ahead!

[KsMama11]

Is there any difference between Yellow Brandywine & Apricot? I received (Apricot) seeds from a fellow named Martin last year, & only one plant lived through the storms & I was only able to get one tomato off of it (that's when I learned about how NOT to grow tomatoes in pots!), but it was a beautiful bright orange (favorite color) , and THE best tasting tomato I believe I have ever tried! Growing a few more plants this year, am excited to see how they do, & taste!

[travis]

Camo, I agree, and I cannot imagine a tomato variety being grown for 75 or 100 years even just down through one family without some genetic drift within the variety or pollen input from outside the variety. The stray pollen input would even be a larger issue with those large fruited varieties that show a strong tendency toward fasciated blossoms.

[nctomatoman]

I suspect that someone who grew Yellow Brandywine (which is a pale orange tomato) thought they had something different and it picked up the Apricot name (which is more descriptive of Yellow Brandywine's actual color than "Yellow"!).

[IronPete]

I have read the origin story of both Limbaugh's Legacy Potato-top and for Marianna's Peace. It got me wondering if Brandywine Pink (Potato-Leaf) and these other two could be the same tomato. They all have origin stories that date way back there when there weren't quite as many varieties as there are now. I am sure they are different now but at one time they may have been the same. Anyone have any ideas on this?

I am growing all 3 this year to compare. My MPs did not seem as vigorous as the LLPT but the BP is a healthy little brute too. I may post pics when they get a little bigger just for comparison.

Iron Pete

[stevenkh1]

As Brandywine Pink is one of my favorite tomatoes plus being born/raised in Ohio, I too, wonder about the origins of this tomato.

I took a snapshot from the 1890 Johnson & Stokes Garden & Farm Manual and here's more info it if helps...

Steve

[stevenkh1]

Here's the back cover of the 1890 Johnson & Stokes Garden & Farm Manual. Unfortunately, there's no foliage image to see if it's RL or PL.

We know the tomato originated from Ohio. Now, why would the seed owner only send the seeds to J&S in Philly when big seed houses like Livingston's and Henderson's were closer?

Another question: Is it possible the original Ohio seed owner sent it to various seedsmen in 1886/87/88 to grow out and a couple seedsmen like J&S and Henderson issued the tomato out under different names?

[ddsack]

Hmm. I wonder what ever happened to variety Atlantic Prize for the early category? It was mentioned at the bottom of the first Brandywine seed catalog page.

[stevenkh1]

It appears Atlantic Prize is still grown:
http://www.rareseeds.com/atlantic-prize-tomato

[ddsack]

Well, I just may have to give it a try! I like growing the really old varieties just to see what they were like. Of course, in 120 years, it's likely they may have changed a bit.

[stevenkh1]

Its possible....it sorts leads back to he Acme thread and a brief exchange by Craig and I that many of the vanity tomato varieties of today(for a lack of a better term eg, Aunt Ginny's, etc) just might be different strains of these original tomatoes from the 1800s/early 1900s whos real names are long lost. And Craig kinda touched on it with this thread: is Brandywine Pink actually Mikado?

Personally, I think Craig is right.

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by stevenkh1

Its possible....it sorts leads back to he Acme thread and a brief exchange by Craig and I that many of the vanity tomato varieties of today(for a lack of a better term eg, Aunt Ginny's, etc) just might be different strains of these original tomatoes from the 1800s/early 1900s whos real names are long lost. And Craig kinda touched on it with this thread: is Brandywine Pink actually Mikado?

Personally, I think Craig is right.

I have never been one to conclude that Brandywine (pink) originated in Ohio. I don't have time to go back and read this whole thread where perhaps Craig got seeds for Mikado from the USDA and shared them with me and it did not resemble BW at all.

There have been many claiments to the original BW from Johnson and Stokes, Burpee and I can't remember all the others.

In my faves I have a lithographic picture of what was called brandywine which turned out to be Red Brandywine ( Chester CO, PA, 1865).

I do know that the hype for growing Brandywine and the history started pretty much when the Sudduth/Quisenberry one became available and also in the Legacy Forum Ben Quisenberrys nephew appeared and talked about his father and his viewpoint. He called him papaberry.

And I do know that unlike many others that I don't consider BW to be the epitome of taste , yes, it has a distinctive kind of winey taste, and yes, I've grown lots of so called strains of it, but there are others that I think have a unique taste as well.

First Brandywine

http://tatianastomatobase.com/wiki/Brandywine

And then the Sudduth/Quisenberry one Where origin is placed in TN, not Ohio

I think I counted something like 14 different pages at Tania's site for different Brandywine ones, said to be different strains by some, which then led us to to have a long thread about WHAT a strain meant here at TV and there are two different reasons why some of us see the word strain to be confusing


http://tatianastomatobase.com/wiki/B...e,_Sudduth%27s


Ah, sweet mystery of life, etc.

Carolyn/

[MrBig46]

I do not understand why it should be the same as Mikado Brandywine. Mikado is Turner´s hybrid, Brandywine was possibly one of the parents. So I understand.
Vladimír