Straw or hay for mulching - Page 2

Sundrops · January 11, 2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by delltraveller

Does anyone have concerns about herbicide residue when using straw or hay?

There is some serious concern about that. I would definately ask the farmer if you can about that.

Nothing is worth taking a chance on getting bad mulch. That is a good argument for using leaves. Slight chance of homeowner spraying their leaves with something that would kill your garden.

Heritage · January 11, 2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by delltraveller

Does anyone have concerns about herbicide residue when using straw or hay?

Yes! If possible get your straw directly from a farmer who you know doesn't use herbicides. If not, I would do some sample growth tests with peas to test for contamination before using it on my tomatoes. I would never mulch a commercial crop with untested straw (or manure).
Hay should not be a problem until the "Roundup-Ready" alfalfa hits the market again.

Steve

FILMNET · January 11, 2012

We are so lucky here on the east coast, Salt Marsh Hay which has no seeds or diseases.

chiefbeaz · January 11, 2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by delltraveller

Does anyone have concerns about herbicide residue when using straw or hay?

I haven't given it much thought since I haven't had any problems using straw as mulch. There is a long thread in Tomatoville about people having problems in their raised beds garden where they used horse manure . It seems the horses ,mules, or what ever had eaten hay that had herbicide residue in it and it killed everything. they had to dig up their garden beds to get rid of the contaminated soil. I do remember that the chemical came from Dow Chemical company and I think that they paid for the cleanup.

Tania · January 12, 2012

Excellent suggestions and warnings, thank you so much for posting these!

I was having some second thoughts about mulching with straw in out cool and wet PNW. It takes a very long time for the soil to warm up and dry up in spring. So perhaps this type of mulching may not be the best choice for my garden and I will need to look into alternative organic methods of weed control.

Tania · January 12, 2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by henry

Just a warning on using straw to mulch garlic it may contain [wheat curl mite] which is a problem for garlic growers.

Henry

Henry,
Thank you for the warning, I did not know this, and yes, I was thinking about mulching my garlic beds...

TomNJ · January 12, 2012

Oh, one other benefit of a hay/straw mulch - it looks beautiful! It also reflects light up to the plants, and you can walk throughout your garden in your bare feet. I avoid shoes whenever practical in the summer.

Tania, you might want to try some mulch on just a section of your garden so you can see what differences it makes. You can always apply it after the soil warms a bit.

Here are a few pictures.

TomNJ

Ruth_10 · January 12, 2012

Tania, the concern about soil warmth is justified. The soil should be warm before the mulch goes on. As TomNJ's photos demonstrate, the mulch is light and will reflect sunlight. I wait until quite late to put the mulch on, which means I do have to so some weeding early on, but those early weeds are fairly easy to deal with. Later summer weeds not so much, so the mulch is a real labor saver there.

I'm not a wheat farmer, so I can't say for certainty that no late season herbicides/pesticides are put on wheat crops, but my observation is that tractors and spraying equipment have not been driven through the fields, as it is very obvious to the eye when a field has been driven through. I can add that I have never, ever had a problem with wheat straw contamination.

dice · January 12, 2012

I never had weeds sprouting from bales of alfalfa, and farmers cannot use
aminopyralid or clopyralid herbicides on it, because that would kill the
alfalfa. It is pretty good plant food, too.

You do have to pay more for it than for straw or hay.

Tania · January 12, 2012

dice,

when do you apply mulch?

The quote I got was for alfalfa hay, so it is more expensive, but I agree it is such a great soil amendment that is worth the extra money.

Jeannine Anne · January 13, 2012

Tania, I have just seen this. We used local straw as mulch last year on raised beds, it sprouted and grew tall ,thick and green and we had a job to get it out. I would not use it again..

XX Jeannine

dice · January 13, 2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tania

When do you apply mulch?

That depends on the weather. If the weather has been sunny
in May, around of the first of June. The soil has usually warmed
up by then. Otherwise, when I am seeing at least a week long sunny
stretch coming in June or later in the weather report. In 2011, I did not
mulch until late July. (Before then the weather was cold, and we were
getting rain every week.)

Most years I simply use grass clippings a couple of inches thick for mulch,
but I have used alfalfa this way, too.

More commonly, I spread a bale of alfalfa over a bed in early spring
where most of that year's winter cover crop did not survive winter and
turn it into the soil a couple of weeks before transplant. The heat of
decomposition warms up the soil some. (I often experiment with winter
cover crops that flower earlier than hairy vetch and winter rye, which
reliably survive the winter but do not leave much of a window in
between when the cover crop should be mowed and time to transplant.)

loeb · January 13, 2012

Straw is perfectly safe if there are no grain seeds in.. some people are using grains as rye and barley as a weed killer, and kind of fertilizer before making a lawn [ok all i say is what i see in Poland, but i guess it can happen everywhere]. I had sucha a straw 3 years ago, it was full of grain, they left oll the grain in it. For us it was good, because it was for the animals, and they clean the grain perfectly

But using such a straw in garden, without aging it can be the reason of a "growing mulch". In normal straw, there is no, or very little grain, and even if it sprouts it's easy to remove it by just lifting it up. Second thing with straw is that it takes lots of nitrogen from the soil, if its fresh. So good option is to left it to "age". But its a nice mulch with lots of air in. and its longer-lasting. I have no experiences with a alfa alfa hay, but i have with a normal meadow-hay. If its made from not old enough grasses it has a tendency to kind of a felting and it can produce mould. But last year i had lots of aged hay of that type [and when i say aged = 40+years] and I mulched some soil with it, to supress the weeds [50cm]. It breaked down very quickly: older the hay, quicker decompose was. Now i think it could be great compost..stuff from cleaning an old barn. But i just wasted it, putting in on the soil near the road. Well, we all learn on something

TomNJ : your garden looks so squeaky clean in that hay

Gosh my is a mess comparing to this

Tania · January 13, 2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeannine Anne

Tania, I have just seen this. We used local straw as mulch last year on raised beds, it sprouted and grew tall ,thick and green and we had a job to get it out. I would not use it again..

XX Jeannine

ouch. where did you get the straw?
(I was taking with Otter Co-op people)

janezee · January 14, 2012

Tania,
Can you get down to the beach? I bring big tubs down and fill them with eel grass and kelp. With all the storms we've had lately, there's lots of it around.
I haven't mulched in the summer yet, but I'll be trying it this year. I have my garlic covered with it now. I thought that the deer wouldn't like walking on it, but I was wrong.

jane

January 12, 2012	#20
Tania Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Anmore, BC, Canada Posts: 3,970	Excellent suggestions and warnings, thank you so much for posting these! I was having some second thoughts about mulching with straw in out cool and wet PNW. It takes a very long time for the soil to warm up and dry up in spring. So perhaps this type of mulching may not be the best choice for my garden and I will need to look into alternative organic methods of weed control. __________________ Tatiana's TOMATObase

January 12, 2012	#23
Ruth_10 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: MO z6a near St. Louis Posts: 1,349	Tania, the concern about soil warmth is justified. The soil should be warm before the mulch goes on. As TomNJ's photos demonstrate, the mulch is light and will reflect sunlight. I wait until quite late to put the mulch on, which means I do have to so some weeding early on, but those early weeds are fairly easy to deal with. Later summer weeds not so much, so the mulch is a real labor saver there. I'm not a wheat farmer, so I can't say for certainty that no late season herbicides/pesticides are put on wheat crops, but my observation is that tractors and spraying equipment have not been driven through the fields, as it is very obvious to the eye when a field has been driven through. I can add that I have never, ever had a problem with wheat straw contamination. __________________ --Ruth Some say the glass half-full. Others say the glass is half-empty. To an engineer, it’s twice as big as it needs to be.

January 12, 2012	#24
dice Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: PNW Posts: 4,743	I never had weeds sprouting from bales of alfalfa, and farmers cannot use aminopyralid or clopyralid herbicides on it, because that would kill the alfalfa. It is pretty good plant food, too. You do have to pay more for it than for straw or hay. __________________ -- alias

January 12, 2012	#25
Tania Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Anmore, BC, Canada Posts: 3,970	dice, when do you apply mulch? The quote I got was for alfalfa hay, so it is more expensive, but I agree it is such a great soil amendment that is worth the extra money. __________________ Tatiana's TOMATObase

January 11, 2012	#18
FILMNET Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: North Charleston,South Carolina, USA Posts: 1,803	We are so lucky here on the east coast, Salt Marsh Hay which has no seeds or diseases.

January 13, 2012	#26
Jeannine Anne Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Canada Posts: 1,553	Tania, I have just seen this. We used local straw as mulch last year on raised beds, it sprouted and grew tall ,thick and green and we had a job to get it out. I would not use it again.. XX Jeannine

January 13, 2012	#28
loeb Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Poland Posts: 251	Straw is perfectly safe if there are no grain seeds in.. some people are using grains as rye and barley as a weed killer, and kind of fertilizer before making a lawn [ok all i say is what i see in Poland, but i guess it can happen everywhere]. I had sucha a straw 3 years ago, it was full of grain, they left oll the grain in it. For us it was good, because it was for the animals, and they clean the grain perfectly But using such a straw in garden, without aging it can be the reason of a "growing mulch". In normal straw, there is no, or very little grain, and even if it sprouts it's easy to remove it by just lifting it up. Second thing with straw is that it takes lots of nitrogen from the soil, if its fresh. So good option is to left it to "age". But its a nice mulch with lots of air in. and its longer-lasting. I have no experiences with a alfa alfa hay, but i have with a normal meadow-hay. If its made from not old enough grasses it has a tendency to kind of a felting and it can produce mould. But last year i had lots of aged hay of that type [and when i say aged = 40+years] and I mulched some soil with it, to supress the weeds [50cm]. It breaked down very quickly: older the hay, quicker decompose was. Now i think it could be great compost..stuff from cleaning an old barn. But i just wasted it, putting in on the soil near the road. Well, we all learn on something TomNJ : your garden looks so squeaky clean in that hay Gosh my is a mess comparing to this

January 14, 2012	#30
janezee Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Whidbey Island, WA Zone 7, Sunset 5 Posts: 931	Tania, Can you get down to the beach? I bring big tubs down and fill them with eel grass and kelp. With all the storms we've had lately, there's lots of it around. I haven't mulched in the summer yet, but I'll be trying it this year. I have my garlic covered with it now. I thought that the deer wouldn't like walking on it, but I was wrong. jane