2017 Grafting thread: Open to all

[b54red]

Originally Posted by BigVanVader

I don't even know man. It depends on if customers are even able to wrap their heads around it. If so I figure I sell each for 3$ - 3 plants =9$ + time + wow factor = maybe 15 or 20$? I'm just going to try to do a few and see how it goes. I feel like if it was in a store it would be $20 or more but until the demand is there its hard to say. Also I will have to keep one for myself of course!

I did that with up to three different scions on one plant but usually when I did three one of them would fail so I ended up with two. Since I am strictly a single stem grower after the success of the last two years I don't think I'll be doing that any more but it was fun to show the plants off in the garden. The coolest looking one had a two potato leaf plants one red and one gold and one regular leaf black tomato. That was one wierd looking plant. I should have also done one with a wispy leafed heart mixed with two others but I quit doing that kind of grafting before I got around to it.

Bill

[BigVanVader]

Yeah I mainly just want one to show off myself, would be good attention for us and really cool just to have in the garden. All my garden buddies would be so jelly

[Fritz77]

Originally Posted by txtstorm

Hi, All. Just catching up on the thread. It's great to read about everyone's successes and...learning opportunities we'll call them.

@Fritz77, if you've got enough seedlings to work with, I recommend trying the side grafting. Initially, I was only going to do top grafts, but had enough plants to play around with. I had some success with side grafting using the tongue method (particularly when the plants were a little larger). It's not too tricky really. I pulled the grafting clip off of one of them after a week in the healing chamber and they were good and 'stuck' to one another. I have yet to clip the scions to see if the rootstock will support them. But the grafts seem to have taken.

All of my grafted plants have been repotted and moved into the greenhouse. I'm hoping they start growing soon.

Also, the peppers I wedge grafted to the Texas Wild tomato rootstocks have taken! They're in the healing chamber still and get wilty when I open it for too long. But they seem to have taken. Freaky!

To any grafting newbie reading this thread....I went from Round 1: 0% success to Round 2: 0% Success to Round 3: about 10% success to my last couple of rounds which were about 90% successful. So, don't be discouraged if this doesn't work for you the first time. Just grow out plenty of plants to screw up on and keep reading and trying new things. You'll get it.

I'd have to say that the 'game changer' was removing most of the roots before making the grafts. My problem with the first few rounds was that the graft joints kept separating. They held together far better once most of the roots were gone. Doing this also makes the plants easy to work with on the table and your cuts will be much more precise. I think Bill's (b54red) advice was the most helpful. Thank you again, Bill!

Now to keep these little guys alive and happy in the greenhouse until mid-March or so. Fingers crossed.

Cheers everyone and good luck! ~Adam

Well, kudos to you Txtstorm for becoming a good drafter! After 2 rounds of 0% success probably I wouldn't even have started round 3

I think I'm actually going to try side grafting as I’m going to try cleft drafting too. This last one seems even harder but sounds like fun too. Overall, top grafting seems to be the easiest technique for a beginner like me. I also have some concerns about the temperature . Our veranda is probably the only suitable place I have at home. The question is: will it be warm enough under that plastic cover shelf? I guess I'm going to find out. I'm not going to start my seeds until March.
I’m also not sure I understand what you and other mean when you said that the game changer was removing most of the roots on the rootstock before making the graft. How do you remove the roots?

[b54red]

Originally Posted by Fritz77

Well, kudos to you Txtstorm for becoming a good drafter! After 2 rounds of 0% success probably I wouldn't even have started round 3

I think I'm actually going to try side grafting as I’m going to try cleft drafting too. This last one seems even harder but sounds like fun too. Overall, top grafting seems to be the easiest technique for a beginner like me. I also have some concerns about the temperature . Our veranda is probably the only suitable place I have at home. The question is: will it be warm enough under that plastic cover shelf? I guess I'm going to find out. I'm not going to start my seeds until March.
I’m also not sure I understand what you and other mean when you said that the game changer was removing most of the roots on the rootstock before making the graft. How do you remove the roots?

To remove the roots you just pull the root stock out of whatever medium it is growing in and grab the roots and pull most of them off just before you do the actual cut for the two stems you are joining. I lay the two stems on top of each other or side by side so that the stem size is at a place that matches in size then make a quick cut down through both stems at approximately a forty five degree angle. Make sure you know which top is the scion and which is the root stock before putting them together. It is easy to tell which is the root stock bottom to be grafted too because it has the small root ball left on it after pinching off most of the original root ball and the scion bottom is already cut off with a cut end. The problem will arise if you aren't careful with the two tops when both are regular leaf. I have in the past just grafted the top right back on the root stock base before only a few months later to find out the mistake.

Once you have made the cuts you just join the two parts together with a silicon grafting clip or whatever type of clip you want to use then put it in the moist cup of granular DE that has been charged with a diluted liquid fertilizer. Once you have it stable you put it in the healing chamber immediately.

Bill

[txtstorm]

Thanks, Fritz! I used some small scissors to cut away the extra roots (which, I know, might introduce disease). I just left a little bit of a root ball. Outside of that, I did it just as Bill has described above. And to add, clipping away some of the leaves helps a great deal for a couple of reasons. One, too much weight laterally could pull apart your graft. Leaving new top growth and cutting the larger leaves in half worked really well. And then two, it makes the plants much easier to work with when you're lining up the stems on the cutting board.

Cheers,

Adam

[Father'sDaughter]

Originally Posted by Father'sDaughter

...I decided a trial was in order, so last night I started four of each of my rootstock seeds and eight tomato seeds (four each of two different varieties). Half are in DE and half in seed starter mix. This will also help me gauge how quickly or slowly the rootstock grows and let me try actually grafting some plants before it's time to start the real seeds.

Thanks again, Bill!

Just an update and an observation on my trial seeds.

I had 100% germination on all in 6 days, which is typical in my conditions.

All were immediately moved to the basement under lights.

The RST-04-106-T seedlings are keeping pace with the two scion varieties. Hopefully they continue to do so until grafting time.

The DRO141TX seedlings are lagging well behind. They are healthy, but growing at a snail's pace compared to everything else.

I did drop the first round of scion seeds for my 2017 varieties on Sunday and I was going to wait the recommended week to ten days to start rootstock, but I'm now planning to drop the DRO rootstock seeds tonight based on what I'm seeing.

I'm thinking a seven day lag time for the RST, but I'll make that call after I see what they've done by Sunday.

Has anyone else started DRO seeds yet?

Originally Posted by Father'sDaughter

Just an update and an observation on my trial seeds.

I had 100% germination on all in 6 days, which is typical in my conditions.

All were immediately moved to the basement under lights.

The RST-04-106-T seedlings are keeping pace with the two scion varieties. Hopefully they continue to do so until grafting time.

The DRO141TX seedlings are lagging well behind. They are healthy, but growing at a snail's pace compared to everything else.

I did drop the first round of scion seeds for my 2017 varieties on Sunday and I was going to wait the recommended week to ten days to start rootstock, but I'm now planning to drop the DRO rootstock seeds tonight based on what I'm seeing.

I'm thinking a seven day lag time for the RST, but I'll make that call after I see what they've done by Sunday.

Has anyone else started DRO seeds yet?

My DRO141TX seeds are apparently in a courier van at the moment for delivery this afternoon. Thanks for sharing your observations about slower growth - noted. I'd like to try to do everything possible to ensure I don't waste my expensive rootstock!

Cheers,
Shaun.

[BigVanVader]

To update: 2 of my previous Big Beef grafts got really wilted from being left on the table for to long after grafting. I put the in the chamber, misted, and last night they had improved but still wilted. Rest are looking great and I removed 4 more grafts to lights last night.

I did a few more grafts last night with really small seedlings. I have noticed the smaller grafts seem to heal much faster and sometimes never even wilt. I grafted a JD's Special C-tex that barely had it first true leaves 3 days ago and I swear it looks healed already. I have also found that soaking all of the scions for a few minutes really helps as Delerium/Bill suggested. I got in a hurry and didn't do it with a few and they are the ones struggling. Grafting is addicting and I am kinda ticked I didn't order more rootstock seed now.

[txtstorm]

I think I missed the soaking part. Does that mean soaking the scion with the roots still attached (soaking the roots) or soaking the cut scion before grafting it to the rootstock? Cheers

[BigVanVader]

Either way, I usually cut thee roots off so I don't get confused.

[BigVanVader]

My rootstock tops should be ready to reuse soon.

[BigVanVader]

Ok I did some more grafts. So far none have died. I tried a double variety graft as well. My tubing was to big and my wire to stiff so I improvised by shaving them thin enough to get my biggest clips on it. Here are a few pics.
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[jtjmartin]

I started my first RST rootstock seeds in potting soil. I started the next group of RST seeds in DE about a week later.

I've found that the RST rootstock germinates in DE in less than half the time. Huh.

Does the small DE make better contact with the seeds increasing the amount of heat and water? Easier for the emerging seedling to push out and grow? I don't know but I'm very impressed with germinating in DE.

Jeff

Originally Posted by jtjmartin

I started my first RST rootstock seeds in potting soil. I started the next group of RST seeds in DE about a week later.

I've found that the RST rootstock germinates in DE in less than half the time. Huh.

Does the small DE make better contact with the seeds increasing the amount of heat and water? Easier for the emerging seedling to push out and grow? I don't know but I'm very impressed with germinating in DE.

Jeff

Interesting, thanks Jeff. I've been trying to find DE for sale here in New Zealand but no luck so far. I'll keep trying as it's late summer here so I won't be starting new grafts for another 6 months or so.

My DRO161TX seeds have arrived. They're in a sealed foil packet so I don't want to open them until I need them as I'd like to extend shelf-life as long as possible (I have enough to last me 5 years or more). However on the packet it says "100 DRO141TX seeds, pellets." and when I feel through the packet they feel like little balls about half the size of a match head. Hasw anyone else had seeds in this form? Is it normal? Do I plant them just as I would 'bare' seeds or do I need to pre-soak them or something?

Cheers,
Shaun.

[b54red]

Originally Posted by 5haun5

Interesting, thanks Jeff. I've been trying to find DE for sale here in New Zealand but no luck so far. I'll keep trying as it's late summer here so I won't be starting new grafts for another 6 months or so.

My DRO161TX seeds have arrived. They're in a sealed foil packet so I don't want to open them until I need them as I'd like to extend shelf-life as long as possible (I have enough to last me 5 years or more). However on the packet it says "100 DRO141TX seeds, pellets." and when I feel through the packet they feel like little balls about half the size of a match head. Hasw anyone else had seeds in this form? Is it normal? Do I plant them just as I would 'bare' seeds or do I need to pre-soak them or something?

Cheers,
Shaun.

You should be able to find it in an auto parts store. Look at different oil absorbent products. On the contents listing it should say if it is diatomaceous earth or some form of clay. You may have to look several places to find it but I would think it would be available world wide for that use or as a cat litter.

Bill