Shady, steep slope

babice · July 30, 2012

Howdy gardening buddies. I've been trying for a couple of years to decide what to do in the rather large area under my deck to prevent soil erosion. It's mostly shaded and has about a 30-40% slope. It's back-breaking work -- not only is it steep but you have to bend down most of the time since it's under the deck -- so I'm thinking that if I go the DIY route, I'm going to try to do a little here and there over the next 6 months or so. When we bought this place it was all weeds under there and nothing else was planted in the yard except for grass. Now I have clematis growing up the South side, keeping that side shaded. I also planted a few hosta under there - they are alive but not thriving under there (high heat and drought not helping).

It has eroded quite a bit over the years - you can see the soil line has receded probably 3 feet. I am thinking build a good, solid base at the bottom of it with large rocks and/or larger pavers solidly placed into the base at an inward/downward facing slope. Build the soil up and dig in at least 2 channels, going laterally that will be filled with small rocks and sand and then covered with mulch so that the channels will hopefully catch water and hold it (so that it drains into the soil, rather than running off).

But, I'll need to plant the areas around the channels with shade-loving plants. I can go the fast and all-encompassing route and plant something like pachysandra or vinca. But, won't that then eventually take over the yard? Would it also take over the hosta and clematis? Can pachysandra or vinca really survive zone 5 winters? Or - I could go with something less invasive but it would be slower to take a foot hold (wood ferns, wild ginger). Obviously I will have to put large amounts of mulch under there as well so I can try to build and keep the soil back up to where the soil line used to be.

Ideas? Suggestions?

p.s. Mischka (or other powers that be) - where does this kinda post go?

Cole_Robbie · July 30, 2012

For the bottom, it sounds like you need a retaining wall. Pavers are meant to be flat, and set into compacted sand. When they are at an angle, even if set properly, the sand or soil between the stones will erode as water runs over them. You could cement them all together, but then that is getting into some advanced masonry skills if you want it to last without cracking. Retaining walls are popular, because they are fairly easy. Make sure you poor an appropriate concrete footing for the wall, or it will tip over with time. Stacking stones for the wall is easy, but the footing is what makes it last.

Worth1 · July 30, 2012

A picture would help if you wish.
have you thought about cast iron plants?

jennifer28 · July 30, 2012

English Ivy? But it WILL take over. You just need to rip it out when it grows where you dont want it. I have a lot of it in the shady places in our yard, and it grows over some of our cement walls, and it makes our property look like a nice english cottage. I like it. But it does spread like the dickens.

Worth1 · July 30, 2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by jennifer28

English Ivy? But it WILL take over. You just need to rip it out when it grows where you dont want it. I have a lot of it in the shady places in our yard, and it grows over some of our cement walls, and it makes our property look like a nice english cottage. I like it. But it does spread like the dickens.

If left unchecked it can take down trees.

I like it but don't have any, scared of copperheads.

Worth

jennifer28 · July 30, 2012

yes it climbed some cedar trees (I think they were cedar) and choked them out. we took the trees and the ivy down with them.

habitat_gardener · July 31, 2012

You can grow a cash crop such as goldenseal in the shade
http://www.ces.ncsu.edu/depts/hort/hil/hil-131.html

I'd concentrate on building the soil. (More precisely, building the soil biology -- encouraging the microbial life that literally glues the soil particles together.) I went to a talk by Elaine Ingham (her field is compost tea) where she talked about an eroding/sliding site in the Seattle area on a steep slope. There was another house downhill, and then the lake, so the owners wanted a quick solution before rainy season. They'd consulted a lot of contractors. One of them iirc used kerosene (to kill weeds?). Another one suggested covering the whole thing with concrete. They finally found someone who persuaded them he had the answer. He used compost and compost tea! The compost had to be sprayed onto the slope -- it was too steep to work on. iirc he applied a foot of compost. Rains came and the compost absorbed the water, with no sliding or eroding. They planted that winter and the project was a success.

If I were on a budget, the first thing I'd do would be to get a free truckload of mulch from tree trimmers and start adding it to the slope, 3-4 inches deep. This would also be a good thing to do if I had limited time and could do only one thing. Mulch both covers and protects the soil, and it also fosters microbial life in the soil. If there are actual gullies, it'd be a good idea to make those lateral channels, so that there is a place for rainwater to collect instead of running off.

I wouldn't do anything at the bottom until all the soil was covered. I think the most effective thing to do at the bottom of the slope is to plant something deep-rooted that will help hold the slope.

dustdevil · July 31, 2012

Pachysandra will survive zone 4 winters...I have it growing in full shade here and it has survived -30F. "Silver Beacon"(Lamium) is another one that I think is top-notch for full shade and I grow it too.

babice · July 31, 2012

Here are some pics, taken this morning at 10am so you can see it does get some morning sun toward the front. The soil should be up at least 3 more cinder blocks higher.

babice · July 31, 2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by habitat_gardener

He used compost and compost tea! The compost had to be sprayed onto the slope -- it was too steep to work on. He applied a foot of compost. Rains came and the compost absorbed the water, with no sliding or eroding.

habitat - thanks for that; it confirms my suspicions. This is what I did last weekend on the sunny slopes on the side of the house (see pic) that were eroding. I put down a layer of newspaper, then a layer of composted manure, layer of cotton burr, layer of good garden soil then topped it with a thick layer of cocoa hull mulch or pine bark mulch. Not really done as you can see because I didn't build the slope all the way back up and I haven't done anything at the bottom yet. But, I put down a weed barrier and used rocks and those potted plants to help hold it in place for now.

Now, under that steep, large area under the deck - lots of work if I do that on my own, obviously. But, I might be able to handle it if I do it over time. Kinda take advantage of this drought since we're not getting any rains that are eroding this right now?

babice · July 31, 2012

Jennifer - I thought about ivy but I had that on a different house and it did damage to the brick it was climbing up. Had to have someone remove it for me when I sold it. It sure looks nice, though.

Worth - I'm with you...a little scairt of what kinda buggies and/or snakes may thank me and make their home in whatever I put there. But, whatcha gonna do? Every single year we end up with piles of dirt out in the yard that have runoff into the yard. Cast iron plants, eh? No, that didn't occur to me. Will they overwinter in zone 5?

The goldenseal is an interesting idea. Will look into that. I also was considering putting a winter crop in just to help the soil until I plant something more permanent. But, then I'd have to till ---

Woah! You shoulda seen me out there tilling those sunny slopes I posted a pic of. Oh my goodness what a job!

delltraveller · July 31, 2012

Ferns and native wildflowers, perhaps? The ferns I have seem to grow and spread pretty quickly;they emigrated from the neighboring yard by going under the fence. I've got a patch of wild ginger, too, started from a pretty pathetic little start that found itself happy to be growing in the shade of the grapevine.

I'm pretty close by if you want a hand with the work.

delltraveller · July 31, 2012

I'd move the hostas to the base of the slope, instead of up there at the top.

Cole_Robbie · July 31, 2012

Whatever you plant is going to get dug up when you fix that foundation crack. That corner of your house is sinking into the ground. The whole corner needs to be dug out, jacked up, new footings poured, and most importantly - the drainage issue fixed that probably caused the settling and crack in the first place. It could be something as simple as poor guttering.

I'm sorry to be such a downer. But that foundation problem is only going to get worse with time and be even more expensive to fix.

babice · July 31, 2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cole_Robbie

Whatever you plant is going to get dug up when you fix that foundation crack. That corner of your house is sinking into the ground. The whole corner needs to be dug out, jacked up, new footings poured, and most importantly - the drainage issue fixed that probably caused the settling and crack in the first place. It could be something as simple as poor guttering.

I'm sorry to be such a downer. But that foundation problem is only going to get worse with time and be even more expensive to fix.

Yeah, big bummer. I did notice that when I was taking those pics this morning.

Going to show it to DH this evening.

July 30, 2012	#1
babice Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: zone 5b, Eastern Iowa Posts: 629	Shady, steep slope Howdy gardening buddies. I've been trying for a couple of years to decide what to do in the rather large area under my deck to prevent soil erosion. It's mostly shaded and has about a 30-40% slope. It's back-breaking work -- not only is it steep but you have to bend down most of the time since it's under the deck -- so I'm thinking that if I go the DIY route, I'm going to try to do a little here and there over the next 6 months or so. When we bought this place it was all weeds under there and nothing else was planted in the yard except for grass. Now I have clematis growing up the South side, keeping that side shaded. I also planted a few hosta under there - they are alive but not thriving under there (high heat and drought not helping). It has eroded quite a bit over the years - you can see the soil line has receded probably 3 feet. I am thinking build a good, solid base at the bottom of it with large rocks and/or larger pavers solidly placed into the base at an inward/downward facing slope. Build the soil up and dig in at least 2 channels, going laterally that will be filled with small rocks and sand and then covered with mulch so that the channels will hopefully catch water and hold it (so that it drains into the soil, rather than running off). But, I'll need to plant the areas around the channels with shade-loving plants. I can go the fast and all-encompassing route and plant something like pachysandra or vinca. But, won't that then eventually take over the yard? Would it also take over the hosta and clematis? Can pachysandra or vinca really survive zone 5 winters? Or - I could go with something less invasive but it would be slower to take a foot hold (wood ferns, wild ginger). Obviously I will have to put large amounts of mulch under there as well so I can try to build and keep the soil back up to where the soil line used to be. Ideas? Suggestions? p.s. Mischka (or other powers that be) - where does this kinda post go? Last edited by babice; July 30, 2012 at 09:55 PM. Reason: grammar

July 30, 2012	#4
jennifer28 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Connecticut Posts: 853	English Ivy? But it WILL take over. You just need to rip it out when it grows where you dont want it. I have a lot of it in the shady places in our yard, and it grows over some of our cement walls, and it makes our property look like a nice english cottage. I like it. But it does spread like the dickens. __________________ Trees are poems that the earth writes upon the sky. We fell them down and turn them into paper that we may record our emptiness. -from Sand and Foam, by Khalil Gibran

July 30, 2012	#6
jennifer28 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Connecticut Posts: 853	yes it climbed some cedar trees (I think they were cedar) and choked them out. we took the trees and the ivy down with them. __________________ Trees are poems that the earth writes upon the sky. We fell them down and turn them into paper that we may record our emptiness. -from Sand and Foam, by Khalil Gibran

July 31, 2012	#8
dustdevil Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: WI, USA Zone4 Posts: 1,073	Pachysandra will survive zone 4 winters...I have it growing in full shade here and it has survived -30F. "Silver Beacon"(Lamium) is another one that I think is top-notch for full shade and I grow it too. Last edited by dustdevil; July 31, 2012 at 08:31 AM.

July 31, 2012	#11
babice Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: zone 5b, Eastern Iowa Posts: 629	Jennifer - I thought about ivy but I had that on a different house and it did damage to the brick it was climbing up. Had to have someone remove it for me when I sold it. It sure looks nice, though. Worth - I'm with you...a little scairt of what kinda buggies and/or snakes may thank me and make their home in whatever I put there. But, whatcha gonna do? Every single year we end up with piles of dirt out in the yard that have runoff into the yard. Cast iron plants, eh? No, that didn't occur to me. Will they overwinter in zone 5? The goldenseal is an interesting idea. Will look into that. I also was considering putting a winter crop in just to help the soil until I plant something more permanent. But, then I'd have to till --- Woah! You shoulda seen me out there tilling those sunny slopes I posted a pic of. Oh my goodness what a job! Last edited by babice; July 31, 2012 at 12:51 PM.

July 30, 2012	#2
Cole_Robbie Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Illinois, zone 6 Posts: 855	For the bottom, it sounds like you need a retaining wall. Pavers are meant to be flat, and set into compacted sand. When they are at an angle, even if set properly, the sand or soil between the stones will erode as water runs over them. You could cement them all together, but then that is getting into some advanced masonry skills if you want it to last without cracking. Retaining walls are popular, because they are fairly easy. Make sure you poor an appropriate concrete footing for the wall, or it will tip over with time. Stacking stones for the wall is easy, but the footing is what makes it last.

July 30, 2012	#3
Worth1 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Austin TX Metropolitan Area Posts: 6,428	A picture would help if you wish. have you thought about cast iron plants?

July 31, 2012	#7
habitat_gardener Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: California Posts: 1,476	You can grow a cash crop such as goldenseal in the shade http://www.ces.ncsu.edu/depts/hort/hil/hil-131.html I'd concentrate on building the soil. (More precisely, building the soil biology -- encouraging the microbial life that literally glues the soil particles together.) I went to a talk by Elaine Ingham (her field is compost tea) where she talked about an eroding/sliding site in the Seattle area on a steep slope. There was another house downhill, and then the lake, so the owners wanted a quick solution before rainy season. They'd consulted a lot of contractors. One of them iirc used kerosene (to kill weeds?). Another one suggested covering the whole thing with concrete. They finally found someone who persuaded them he had the answer. He used compost and compost tea! The compost had to be sprayed onto the slope -- it was too steep to work on. iirc he applied a foot of compost. Rains came and the compost absorbed the water, with no sliding or eroding. They planted that winter and the project was a success. If I were on a budget, the first thing I'd do would be to get a free truckload of mulch from tree trimmers and start adding it to the slope, 3-4 inches deep. This would also be a good thing to do if I had limited time and could do only one thing. Mulch both covers and protects the soil, and it also fosters microbial life in the soil. If there are actual gullies, it'd be a good idea to make those lateral channels, so that there is a place for rainwater to collect instead of running off. I wouldn't do anything at the bottom until all the soil was covered. I think the most effective thing to do at the bottom of the slope is to plant something deep-rooted that will help hold the slope.

July 31, 2012	#12
delltraveller Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Iowa Posts: 465	Ferns and native wildflowers, perhaps? The ferns I have seem to grow and spread pretty quickly;they emigrated from the neighboring yard by going under the fence. I've got a patch of wild ginger, too, started from a pretty pathetic little start that found itself happy to be growing in the shade of the grapevine. I'm pretty close by if you want a hand with the work.

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