random musings of a newbie

[babice]

If I could be so-indulged: I'm putting my thoughts down as a gardening-newbie so many years ago versus now being a newbie to growing tomatoes. I've been thinking lately how I really need to merge those two worlds, if you will. I've been what I thought of as a serious gardener since around 1997 so about 15 years now. I have thought of myself as "having a green thumb" for some time now, but now that I think back on it -- I don't believe I thought so way back then.

This past Spring/Summer I grew my first tomatoes - it was a bad year for tomatoes, I'm told - whether it was the year or me just being new I didn't have a good year. I didn't get very many red tomatoes until late, late into the season. Well, heck I didn't even know what I was doing when I bought those toms from the nursery - probably bought some late bloomers for all I know. Anyway - I'm growing toms (and other stuff) from seed for the first time this year. Am both enjoying the learning experience and obsessing over it at the same time. Well...more like I'm obsessing over the toms than anything. This is because I'm on a mission. I want to get some good home grown 'maters this year! I didn't get ANY last year! I haven't had any, really, since my grandfather grew them in Pennsylvania so long ago. Sigh....

I've been running into road blocks on my first go 'round of growing toms from seed. So, I've been telling myself to remember when I was a newbie at gardening in general. That might actually help me to relax and enjoy it more.

My first serious year as a gardener: bought my first house so I was in love with it of course. My neighbor planted lots of pretty flowers in her front and back yard and I was already in love with gardening so I kinda followed her lead that first year. I laugh when I remember the 2nd day -- I had planted TONS of petunias out front. Killed my back. Killed my pocket book. Oh so pretty. Oh so proud. Next day - came outside - looked like one of my neighbors had come by and pulled EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM up and just laid them there to the side. And I mean - EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM. Well, imagine my surprise! It was obviously some grub-loving animal but I sure didn't know to expect anything like that. I was just shocked and frustrated.

Anyway - I didn't give up. I eventually branched out from doing what I saw my neighbor succeeding with to experimenting with my own stuff. Fifteen years later: my neighbors are asking me for advice and asking me where I learned what I know. I tell them the truth - trial and errorl; a little bit of bravado and a lot of trial and error. And also a lot of reading of books and, these days, reading what folks have on the internet.

I dunno what it is. Partly that I really just love it. I hate housework and cleaning, etc. But I love spending time outdoors and doing even the menial tasks of turning soil over and weeding and trying to figure out where something will work, etc. I'm usually pretty successful.

But, what I've been realizing as I'm watching myself now obsessing over the tomato growing is that all these years I've always been somewhat relaxed about it all. Meaning - I wasn't always going to be successful. I knew that. It wasn't about the money. It was about doing something that I loved and enjoyed. And I knew not everything I did was going to be successful and I knew I would learn from it and do new things next year. Example in point is that this year in my perennial garden I'm experimenting with a white garden -- some of the stuff I put in this past fall didn't come back up. I'm not feeling the least bit guilty about that. It just is what it is.

I'm trying to learn that same lesson with the toms I'm currently growing from seed. They probably won't all make it. Yes I'm seeing some incredibly fantastic, amazing, experienced people in this forum who grow tons and tons of toms from seed and they all look just fabulous. But that won't be me. It's okay. I'm in my first year. I'm learning. It's not about the money - it's about the enjoyment and I'm going to be happy if I just have a few of the toms make it and give me some fruit this year which would be better than last year.

[livinonfaith]

Love your musings! Not so random at all.

[RebelRidin]

Have faith Babice. Try to relax and just enjoy yourself as you always have. Once you get that first plant set out you will be back on familiar ground, in your garden. Only this time you will be growing tomatoes from plants that you already grew from seed. The plants you grow from seed are at least as good as any you could buy.

See, just you and your plants in your garden. You've been here before

[babice]

Originally Posted by RebelRidin

Have faith Babice. Try to relax and just enjoy yourself as you always have...

Oi vay - thanks! I'm trying, I'm trying. SO hard not to get discouraged with the issues I've been running into with the tom seeds I started. One of my babies, I think, is gonna have to go to the grave. Me sad for him. He's only 5 weeks old...poor little guy. I noticed the other day some of his leaves were wilting and turning under...purple vein coloration on the tops. Looked much worse this morning so I moved him away from his brothers and sisters....although...some of his sisters have some purple vein coloration too. ...so...
..
I just don't get it! How could it be that dad-gummed hard? I let them dry out between waterings (bottom watering), leave them under a T5 light at least 12 hours a day..usually more. Have fans blowing on them most of the time. I don't see any little buggers flying around any where so I don't see how it could be white flies or thrips. The other day I bottom watered them with a weak chamomile tea water hoping that would help if there is any kind of fungus or anything. I sprayed them all with a very dilute aspirin water last week too.

Any other ideas? I'm going to keep trying.... Head up...I'll figure it out eventually, right?

[Heritage]

babice,

Nice musings!

If your grandfather is still alive you should ask him how he grew his tomatoes. Heirlooms have been around for a long time - long before T5 lights, bottom watering, tea water and tractors.

I suspect your grandfather threw a handful of tomato seeds in the ground, kicked some soil over the top of them, stomped on them, and then came back 3 months later to harvest the tomatoes that he forgot he had even planted..

Tomatoes are basically weeds. When we treat them as prima donnas, they soon demand chocolates and refuse to sing backup

Steve

[babice]

Originally Posted by Heritage

Tomatoes are basically weeds. When we treat them as prima donnas, they soon demand chocolates and refuse to sing backup Steve

LOL! Excellent analogy...I understand it, man! Hey - do you know me somehow? Well, sadly, no - he's not around any more. But you're right! He didn't have all those high falutin' things that's for sure. He had to have started some in his basement but I dunno! He had a huge veggie garden with all sortsa stuff but what I remember the most are the toms. I particularly remember one year - a rogue tomato grew up in way out in the yard away from the garden -- right over the area with the septic tank! He musta dropped the seed or something.

Geesh - you're right. And, you know, where I'm not relaxing is in the good ole just takin a stab at it that I've been doing all these years. So - what I've decided I'm going to try with my little guy (poor little runt that he is) is giving him a spritz of very diluted fish emulsion with some molasses mixed in. Because I think it might possibly be a phosporous deficiency. I could be wrong. But, I guess we'll see!

[Heritage]

Originally Posted by babice

Geesh - you're right. And, you know, where I'm not relaxing is in the good ole just takin a stab at it that I've been doing all these years. So - what I've decided I'm going to try with my little guy (poor little runt that he is) is giving him a spritz of very diluted fish emulsion with some molasses mixed in. Because I think it might possibly be a phosporous deficiency. I could be wrong. But, I guess we'll see!

Before you give him too much love, do you have photos of his infliction? Some children are just slow starters.

[OneDahlia]

Babice, I think that attitude is key. We'll have some successes and some failures, and gradually the ratio will turn more in our favor.

I tried starting tomatoes from seed for the first time two years ago. Full of optimism, I ordered $60 of seeds. The local nursery was out of seed starting mix, so the worker there said just use regular potting soil. Of course, every single seedling got damping off disease and died. Plan B -- I bought plants from the Master Gardeners.

Last year, I bought real seed starting mix and got some tomatoes to germinate. Some damped off and died, but some survived. I left them in a window in their starting cells for probably two months and never fertilized them. They looked terrible, but I planted them and they grew. The cherry tomatoes produced all summer. In late August, the Brandywines finally produced some tomatoes that were just starting to think about blushing when a groundhog ate every single one. But at least I had cherry tomatoes last year.

This year, after reading forums for 8 months, I knew better how to start tomatoes. (Craig's videos were an amazing help!) I way overplanted using the dense planting method just in case they didn't germinate well or they got damping off, and a huge percent germinated and there was zero damping off disease, lol. Separated them into their own cups, pulling their little roots apart, and was amazed that they didn't mind at all. I set up some lights and had beautiful seedlings everywhere. Then aphids appeared and I almost killed the plants with overly soapy water. Now I'm trying to ignore them. I figure the less I pay attention to them, the better chance they have, lol. If some don't make it, it's OK. If something gets all of them, I'll be sad.

My point is that we'll get better, hopefully at a reasonably steady pace, lol. We can't really avoid learning as we make mistakes one by one.

I love seeing these perky, cheerful looking baby plants. I think this is what hope looks like.

[babice]

Originally Posted by Heritage

Before you give him too much love, do you have photos of his infliction? Some children are just slow starters.

I will try to get a photo Heritage! (am currently at work). Haven't done anything to them yet. I took another good look at them this morning; 2 diff things going on:

1. baby EVH (4 wks old) - yellowish leaf with purplish veins showing through. Looks same height as her sisters so I'm wondering if I just need to turn the heat up a little in the room so they can absorb more phosporous. This is the one I considered giving a shot of fish emulsion/molasses.

2. poor little baby Big Beef (5 wks old) he's still sitting over to the side all by his lonesome. Took another good look at him this morning and realized a couple things: (a) I was a DUMB mommy and dropped an onion seed in with him. I didn't realize this but that onion seedling's been growing - I pulled that stinker OUT this morning, and (b) the bottom leaves are curling under, the underside of these bottom leaves are purple, no spots, no signs of insects, has newer, greener leaves growing.

Originally Posted by OneDahlia

I love seeing these perky, cheerful looking baby plants. I think this is what hope looks like...

OneDahlia - what a lovely thought that is! Thank you!

[babice]

Attempting to post pics of "sick boy"/ He has two leaves on either side that are turning under. And you may be able to see that there's a smaller leaf toward the back that still has a purple underside. I did turn up the heat in the room this morning and the underside of the 2 larger leaves appears to have cleared up now. What would be causing the turning under? And what looks to me to be stunted growth (this is a 5 week old seedling)? I have more photos - let me know if I need to post more to help identify. Thanks!

[babice]

This is one of the little girl with the yellowed leaf that has purple veins. I was thinking of giving her a shot of very diluted fish emulsion mixed with molasses. Opinion?

[stonysoilseeds]

i really like your sentiments .. i think your plants look good certainly more advanced then mine.. the fish emulsion would help but usually purple veins mean phosphorous deficiency and it would correct itself when planting in soil if phosphorous is not deficient good luck on a bountiful harvest i always find the plants that do best for me are the ones i speak to the most i say grow and ripen your fruit before frost

[babice]

Originally Posted by stonysoilseeds

i really like your sentiments .. i think your plants look good certainly more advanced then mine.. the fish emulsion would help but usually purple veins mean phosphorous deficiency and it would correct itself when planting in soil if phosphorous is not deficient good luck on a bountiful harvest i always find the plants that do best for me are the ones i speak to the most i say grow and ripen your fruit before frost

okey dokey! I'll talk to them!

So - you think even that sick boy with the curled-under leaf looks good?

[celerystalksmidnite]

babice, those don't look too bad, to my eyes. Maybe almost ready for hardening off? Or will you be waiting awhile longer and trying for bigger plants? I think you did good to get the heat up a little, if it was too cool.

in case someone with more experience doesn't chime in, I'll tell you what I think. and this is just a personal opinion, and from someone who has been growing tomatoes for less than a decade, so take it for what it's worth: I have always had lousy luck with those biodegradable peat pots. I've heard some people say they've had luck with them, but I've never had anything but stunted plants. I LIKE THE IDEA of biodegradable plant pots, just not the performance. I did see Ami mention something called cow pots, which I might trial next year to see if they work for me. In any case, if it were me (which it isn't!), I might try gently (or not gently! haha) removing the plants from the pots and transplanting to something else (maybe something with the same shape and size or you could always try gently rinsing the roots and adding new mix, or just add potting soil around the existing root ball). what you'll eventually be looking for is a lot of root development, to somewhat fill the pot and be mildly root-bound. that way the roots will be taking care of most of the excess moisture and leaving less for the water-loving diseases. the more space you give to a seedling in a pot, the more space you are giving to diseases; that's why I like to pot up twice (or more) as I increase pot size. the ratio of seedling size to pot size needs to be proportional: enough room to grow, but not so much room that it will take forever for the roots to find the sides and bottom (which seem to have a stimulating effect on root development).

all that said, your plants don't look too bad to me. seedlings are always a precarious venture. kind of a waiting time bomb, until you can get them in the sun and then in the ground. then it's sink or swim for your babies and you can stand back and watch for awhile.

[babice]

Originally Posted by celerystalksmidnite

babice, those don't look too bad, to my eyes. Maybe almost ready for hardening off?

Thanks - there's only 1 "sick plant" in this pic. I put the healthy ones in the backround on that first pic as a point of reference. Shoulda mentioned that, huh? But if two of you think it looks healthy enough I'm gonna just not worry about him!

Originally Posted by celerystalksmidnite

Maybe almost ready for hardening off? Or will you be waiting awhile longer and trying for bigger plants?

Yes - getting close to that time. These are only 5 weeks old so I was going to wait another week. We've had some cool weather here lately too so I'm hoping to start hardening these little fellas off next week.

I agree on the peat pot thing. I won't do that again. And I too plan to try those cow pots or the dot pots (which ami says are just as good and less expensive).