My two worst tomatoes-this season.

michael johnson · July 24, 2006

My two worst tomatoes this season- which I thought were going to be my best!!, are:-

Neves Azorean red- which grows very well and sturdy-no probs, but seems to be a very poor flower setter, none of the flowers on the first truss set, and only two or three set on the second truss, despite my best pollinating efforts- it seems to be a shy flowerer and setter, which is quite the opposite to what I have read about it-as its supposed to have reams of tomatoes and be a good setter, but I shall persevere for at least another two seasons with it.

WES- I was real dissapointed with this one, allthough it grows well enough in itself, and has set quite a few decent tomatoes on it, its oh' so contrary and fussy as to conditions and feed,watering etc, anything it doesnt seem to like it droops its long wispy leaves and sulks for days, a slight bit of a cool breeze and it goes into droop mode again, also a bit of a shy cropper and flowerer , I have realy had to pull out all the stops with this one and nurse it along with great care and personal attention.and lots of TLC.

I wouldnt say it was an easy tomato to grow-it is definatly not for beginners and needs someone of considerable experiance to cope with its mood swings and tantrums and sulky periods, I found it great fun realy and a bit of a challenge to say the least -trying to outfox the blighter and anticipate its moods-but its been hard work.

I shall eventualy get a decent crop out of it as there are already several good tomatoes showing on it.

It seems to lack initial vigour in the breed and needs some sort of "gee up" gene to give it a boost.

All the other varieties I am growing have simply romped away and are doing fine by comparison.

Other people who have grown either of the above varieties may not have found the same results in growing them as me- some may have had no probs at all and they just grew and set tomatoes fine etc- I suppose its just the luck of the draw,

8)
I think my biggest dissapointment of the two was the Neves Azorean Red- I expected reams of tomatoes from it simular to Zogola-which incedentaly produced a very good crop all the way up the stem.

**carolyn137** · July 24, 2006

Other people who have grown either of the above varieties may not have found the same results in growing them as me- some may have had no probs at all and they just grew and set tomatoes fine etc- I suppose its just the luck of the draw,

I do think that's the best way of looking it Michael b'c there are many threads devoted to Neves at several places where I post with folks praising it highly and a few who do say a shy setter for them with their conditions in a particular year .

As for Wes, I don't think I've heard anything but praise for it as well, and I know it sets beautifully for me and I love this big blunt red heart shaped variety with the wispy leaves. Although I'd love to know more about where it came from and that info is not forthcoming.

Sorry things didn't work out better for you this year with those two varieties. When a variety doesn't perform for me and others have praised it highly, I always grow it a second year, so that's an option that you too have.

Tomstrees · July 24, 2006

NAR has been doing well for me in the heat /
and has shown some resistance to disease -

After further review I only
have 1 thats not doing well for heat / disease:
Cherokee Chocolate

Looks like a "puller" ~

Tom

travis · July 24, 2006

My Neves still hasn't set a fruit either. It's a great looking plant. Healthy as a horse. Erect. Lush ... etc. Just no tomatoes.

Now this weekend was about the most perfect weather of the summer yet ... 62 - 66F at night and 78 to 82F daytime from Friday afternoon til this morning. If I didn't get a blossom set then ... something is seriously wrong.

PV

michael johnson · July 25, 2006

Yes-its all very strange indeed, but I am glad to see that I am not entirely on my own with this problem, I shall definatly give them both a second try again next season as I dont give up that easy.

The neves azorean red is the same as papa vics, a real healthy looking plant, strong as a horse-thick stems, etc but not much fruit- I was expecting reams of them all the way up the stem in a simular fashion to zogola, in the end by the time the second truss of flowers had formed and didnt seem to be setting-I had to resort to hand pollination, mainly out of sheer frusteration of worrying if I was going to get any to set on this variety.

But its just as Carolyn says some people have had absolutly no probs with them whatsoever but both are worth a second chance next season, perhaps better armed beforehand with the previous seasons knowledge of their perfomance in mind one can start off better and adjust to their needs as you go along-in a sort of learning curve, theres one thing for sure though-when it comes to tomatoes-you allways learn the hard way-with all the biffs and bangs along the way-but you usualy come out of it better for it, for next time.

I think with Wes- I should have sown the seed in march with all the others, but I didnt obtain the seed until much later in the season and was late sowing them- if I had sown them in march they would have probably had time to build up plenty of flower buds in the tips during the cool spell and grow normaly.

But as it was-after I had sown them they germinated rapidly and we were just entering a high heat and sunshine period, so they shot up very quickly into sturdy plants very easily, since that time we have been having a major heatwave crisis over here in the UK, continuing hot scorching days with temps up to 36 degrees, for weeks on end with hardly any rain, me and the wife have been out every evening in the garden watering by hand trying to keep things moist- but its been a struggle to say the least, in my conservatory the other day the mid day temp reached a staggering 127 degrees -with all the doors and windows wide open and green shading netting covering the roof and sides, and I have got all my aubergines and pepper plants growing in there!!

piegirl · July 25, 2006

having the same prob with NAR - fantastic tree like plant but the flowers fail to set - however, we have our usual ever-so long heat wave going. No disease and she doesn't even wilt on a 108 degree day. Hopefully there will be some set on later as it is a beauty. Soldacki is another that seems to hate the heat - tons of flowers and finally, I think I may have 3-4. Taste-wise Rose de Berne hasn't been great - but again weather could be factor. Piegirl

elkwc36 · July 25, 2006

Piegirl my Soldaki's are doing the same. Great looking plants and flowering but no tomatoes yet. Hopefully I'll get a few. Will probably try them again next year anyway. It has been a very difficult year. Some are loaded and others are bare. JD

travis · July 26, 2006

Okay ... BINGO! Neves has 3 marble sized fruit set! Just saw them late this afternoon.

PV

username5 · July 26, 2006

This stuff is just too variable to make any definitive statements on.

For me Neves has been a stellar performer for the past 3 years.

Tomstrees, shame on you for wanting to pull Cherokee Chocolate!

I had heard much about cherokee purple so gave it a try and wasn't impressed at all. So, I tried cherokee chocolate which I understand to be more or less the same thing and it has been great for 2 years.

Go figure.

Don't know what Wes is, so can't comment.

Last year I was frustrated with Sungold because it was a poor performer for me so I posted somewhere about it to see other's comments. Without exception everyone praised it for yield and within a couple weeks my sparse yielding plants were loaded down.

The year prior they were sparse yielders.

Again, go figure.

For what it's worth (probably not much) I am in zone 5 Wisconsin.

michael johnson · July 26, 2006

I have decided to try to help WES along a bit, last night I noticed some little bumps on the stem high up near the top -where roots can sprout from, so I am going to chance it and bend over the five foot stem and layer the last 18" inches into a grow bag or pot, that should give it a boost when the new water roots form in about a week or so, and produce more vigorous growth for the growing tip.

Papa vic- your frusterating me-with your marble size Azorean reds forming, so much so that I am going out into my garden again this afternoon with a fine artists camel hair brush and hand pollinate all flowers still showing, and viberate them like ( gosh darnoodly )with any form of electric toothbrush that I can find- whilst uttering incantations over them to the tune of (set you blighters-set)or perhaps something a little more colourfull and unprintable on this forum

,

Since Several of us appear to have had the same Problem with the neaves, perhaps all our seed came from the same base scource, I bought mine from a seed merchant in the uk.

But perhaps we all ought to change our seed source for next year and get some from the same place as (Username 5) as his seems to be doing well. :wink:

username5 · July 26, 2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by michael johnson

But perhaps we all ought to change our seed source for next year and get some from the same place as (Username 5) as his seems to be doing well. :wink:

Would be difficult to do I am afraid. I got my seed from a Garden Webber I only know as chuck. He got his seed from Carolyn a few years ago as I recall. First year the seed he gave me was a cross and not at all Nevesish. Following year it was the real deal and I am now out.

So, I too will be looking for a commercial source and from the descriptions I read I am none too confident it will be the same. Perhaps I should save seed this year even though with my 12" spacing the probability of crossing is high.

Of course Carolyn might have some of that original seed left

**carolyn137** · July 26, 2006

Let me check with Glenn Drowns at Sandhill and Linda at TGS and see if Neves Azorean Red worked well for them and if so, will it be offered commercially soon, since I'm the source of seed to both of them.

I know Glenn is frustrated b'c he can't get good amounts of Aunt Gertie's Gold out of his sandy soil and there were a couple of others that were making him annoyed, but I can't remenber if NAR was one of them.

Yes, I still have seed b'c I still list it in the SSE Yearbook. But since I fell I haven't been able to do growouts to replenish stock so right now I don't know where I'm at as regards seed for the 2007 Yearbook. For anything. I'm sure from here on out I'll be deleting varieties from the Yearbook b'c I can't produce more stock.

On the other hand there are three folks growing out six new ones for me and producing seed, and I'm ever so greatful for those three who are BCDay in NYS with three, Shoe in NC with two and Tree in Maine with one new one from Germany. Thise will be listed in the 2007 Yearbook if all goes well this summer.

feldon30 · July 26, 2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by username5

Last year I was frustrated with Sungold because it was a poor performer for me so I posted somewhere about it to see other's comments. Without exception everyone praised it for yield and within a couple weeks my sparse yielding plants were loaded down.

Once your tomato plants think they're going to get the chop, they'll get their butts in gear!

**nctomatoman** · July 26, 2006

There is possibly something unusual about Neves. I've grown it three times. The first time (when C first circulated the seed), I had an amazingly healthy plant - vigorous, sturdy - though I got fruit from every other variety in the garden that year, it simply refused to even blossom! Following year, same seed source, it performed brilliantly, and this year, from saved seed, it is thriving at a neighbor's house. It made me wonder if there is a recessive trait for it to produce mule plants - all foliage, few or no flowers.

Just a wild theory, anyway! I've never had a plant do that before.

Grub · July 26, 2006

I don't think that's such a wild theory Craig.

Last season I grew three NAR in various spots, all first-class postiions. The plant was tree-like, stout, thick branches, with some flowers, but I had very ordinary production of maybe eight tomatoes between them. Some were nice and big but sizes varied wildly.

Kind of fits with the rest of this thread.

July 24, 2006	#1
michael johnson Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: UK. Posts: 960	My two worst tomatoes-this season. My two worst tomatoes this season- which I thought were going to be my best!!, are:- Neves Azorean red- which grows very well and sturdy-no probs, but seems to be a very poor flower setter, none of the flowers on the first truss set, and only two or three set on the second truss, despite my best pollinating efforts- it seems to be a shy flowerer and setter, which is quite the opposite to what I have read about it-as its supposed to have reams of tomatoes and be a good setter, but I shall persevere for at least another two seasons with it. WES- I was real dissapointed with this one, allthough it grows well enough in itself, and has set quite a few decent tomatoes on it, its oh' so contrary and fussy as to conditions and feed,watering etc, anything it doesnt seem to like it droops its long wispy leaves and sulks for days, a slight bit of a cool breeze and it goes into droop mode again, also a bit of a shy cropper and flowerer , I have realy had to pull out all the stops with this one and nurse it along with great care and personal attention.and lots of TLC. I wouldnt say it was an easy tomato to grow-it is definatly not for beginners and needs someone of considerable experiance to cope with its mood swings and tantrums and sulky periods, I found it great fun realy and a bit of a challenge to say the least -trying to outfox the blighter and anticipate its moods-but its been hard work. I shall eventualy get a decent crop out of it as there are already several good tomatoes showing on it. It seems to lack initial vigour in the breed and needs some sort of "gee up" gene to give it a boost. All the other varieties I am growing have simply romped away and are doing fine by comparison. Other people who have grown either of the above varieties may not have found the same results in growing them as me- some may have had no probs at all and they just grew and set tomatoes fine etc- I suppose its just the luck of the draw, 8) I think my biggest dissapointment of the two was the Neves Azorean Red- I expected reams of tomatoes from it simular to Zogola-which incedentaly produced a very good crop all the way up the stem.

July 24, 2006	#2
carolyn137 Moderator Emeritus Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Upstate NY, zone 4b/5a Posts: 21,169	Other people who have grown either of the above varieties may not have found the same results in growing them as me- some may have had no probs at all and they just grew and set tomatoes fine etc- I suppose its just the luck of the draw, I do think that's the best way of looking it Michael b'c there are many threads devoted to Neves at several places where I post with folks praising it highly and a few who do say a shy setter for them with their conditions in a particular year . As for Wes, I don't think I've heard anything but praise for it as well, and I know it sets beautifully for me and I love this big blunt red heart shaped variety with the wispy leaves. Although I'd love to know more about where it came from and that info is not forthcoming. Sorry things didn't work out better for you this year with those two varieties. When a variety doesn't perform for me and others have praised it highly, I always grow it a second year, so that's an option that you too have. __________________ Carolyn

July 24, 2006	#3
Tomstrees Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: NJ Bayshore Posts: 3,848	NAR has been doing well for me in the heat / and has shown some resistance to disease - After further review I only have 1 thats not doing well for heat / disease: Cherokee Chocolate Looks like a "puller" ~ Tom __________________ My green thumb came only as a result of the mistakes I made while learning to see things from the plant's point of view. ~ H. Fred Ale

July 26, 2006	#12
carolyn137 Moderator Emeritus Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Upstate NY, zone 4b/5a Posts: 21,169	Let me check with Glenn Drowns at Sandhill and Linda at TGS and see if Neves Azorean Red worked well for them and if so, will it be offered commercially soon, since I'm the source of seed to both of them. I know Glenn is frustrated b'c he can't get good amounts of Aunt Gertie's Gold out of his sandy soil and there were a couple of others that were making him annoyed, but I can't remenber if NAR was one of them. Yes, I still have seed b'c I still list it in the SSE Yearbook. But since I fell I haven't been able to do growouts to replenish stock so right now I don't know where I'm at as regards seed for the 2007 Yearbook. For anything. I'm sure from here on out I'll be deleting varieties from the Yearbook b'c I can't produce more stock. On the other hand there are three folks growing out six new ones for me and producing seed, and I'm ever so greatful for those three who are BCDay in NYS with three, Shoe in NC with two and Tree in Maine with one new one from Germany. Thise will be listed in the 2007 Yearbook if all goes well this summer. __________________ Carolyn

July 26, 2006	#14
nctomatoman Tomatoville® Moderator Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Hendersonville, NC zone 7 Posts: 10,385	There is possibly something unusual about Neves. I've grown it three times. The first time (when C first circulated the seed), I had an amazingly healthy plant - vigorous, sturdy - though I got fruit from every other variety in the garden that year, it simply refused to even blossom! Following year, same seed source, it performed brilliantly, and this year, from saved seed, it is thriving at a neighbor's house. It made me wonder if there is a recessive trait for it to produce mule plants - all foliage, few or no flowers. Just a wild theory, anyway! I've never had a plant do that before. __________________ Craig

July 24, 2006	#4
travis Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Evansville, IN Posts: 2,984	My Neves still hasn't set a fruit either. It's a great looking plant. Healthy as a horse. Erect. Lush ... etc. Just no tomatoes. Now this weekend was about the most perfect weather of the summer yet ... 62 - 66F at night and 78 to 82F daytime from Friday afternoon til this morning. If I didn't get a blossom set then ... something is seriously wrong. PV

July 25, 2006	#5
michael johnson Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: UK. Posts: 960	Yes-its all very strange indeed, but I am glad to see that I am not entirely on my own with this problem, I shall definatly give them both a second try again next season as I dont give up that easy. The neves azorean red is the same as papa vics, a real healthy looking plant, strong as a horse-thick stems, etc but not much fruit- I was expecting reams of them all the way up the stem in a simular fashion to zogola, in the end by the time the second truss of flowers had formed and didnt seem to be setting-I had to resort to hand pollination, mainly out of sheer frusteration of worrying if I was going to get any to set on this variety. But its just as Carolyn says some people have had absolutly no probs with them whatsoever but both are worth a second chance next season, perhaps better armed beforehand with the previous seasons knowledge of their perfomance in mind one can start off better and adjust to their needs as you go along-in a sort of learning curve, theres one thing for sure though-when it comes to tomatoes-you allways learn the hard way-with all the biffs and bangs along the way-but you usualy come out of it better for it, for next time. I think with Wes- I should have sown the seed in march with all the others, but I didnt obtain the seed until much later in the season and was late sowing them- if I had sown them in march they would have probably had time to build up plenty of flower buds in the tips during the cool spell and grow normaly. But as it was-after I had sown them they germinated rapidly and we were just entering a high heat and sunshine period, so they shot up very quickly into sturdy plants very easily, since that time we have been having a major heatwave crisis over here in the UK, continuing hot scorching days with temps up to 36 degrees, for weeks on end with hardly any rain, me and the wife have been out every evening in the garden watering by hand trying to keep things moist- but its been a struggle to say the least, in my conservatory the other day the mid day temp reached a staggering 127 degrees -with all the doors and windows wide open and green shading netting covering the roof and sides, and I have got all my aubergines and pepper plants growing in there!!

July 25, 2006	#6
piegirl Tomatovillian™ Honoree Join Date: May 2006 Location: Lincoln, NE Posts: 791	having the same prob with NAR - fantastic tree like plant but the flowers fail to set - however, we have our usual ever-so long heat wave going. No disease and she doesn't even wilt on a 108 degree day. Hopefully there will be some set on later as it is a beauty. Soldacki is another that seems to hate the heat - tons of flowers and finally, I think I may have 3-4. Taste-wise Rose de Berne hasn't been great - but again weather could be factor. Piegirl

July 25, 2006	#7
elkwc36 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: May 2006 Location: SW Kansas Posts: 339	Piegirl my Soldaki's are doing the same. Great looking plants and flowering but no tomatoes yet. Hopefully I'll get a few. Will probably try them again next year anyway. It has been a very difficult year. Some are loaded and others are bare. JD

July 26, 2006	#9
username5 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Zone 5 Wisconsin Posts: 117	This stuff is just too variable to make any definitive statements on. For me Neves has been a stellar performer for the past 3 years. Tomstrees, shame on you for wanting to pull Cherokee Chocolate! I had heard much about cherokee purple so gave it a try and wasn't impressed at all. So, I tried cherokee chocolate which I understand to be more or less the same thing and it has been great for 2 years. Go figure. Don't know what Wes is, so can't comment. Last year I was frustrated with Sungold because it was a poor performer for me so I posted somewhere about it to see other's comments. Without exception everyone praised it for yield and within a couple weeks my sparse yielding plants were loaded down. The year prior they were sparse yielders. Again, go figure. For what it's worth (probably not much) I am in zone 5 Wisconsin.

July 26, 2006	#15
Grub Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 2,722	Theory I don't think that's such a wild theory Craig. Last season I grew three NAR in various spots, all first-class postiions. The plant was tree-like, stout, thick branches, with some flowers, but I had very ordinary production of maybe eight tomatoes between them. Some were nice and big but sizes varied wildly. Kind of fits with the rest of this thread.