Tomato varieties for the deep south Heat??

[duajones]

Not sure where you guys are coming from. I dont know if tomatoes are parthenocarpic but they dont need help from insects to pollinate. A little shake of the plant or some wind may help or even an electric toothbrush!
Am I in the wrong thread?

[duajones]

Ok, saw a piece written by Carolyn and yes there are varieties like this I guess.

[duajones]

here is what i read




Are there other parthenocarpic tomatoes?
*****
Yes. Google Dr. James Baggett OSU and a list of the parthenocarpic varieties that he's bred should come up, in addition to Legend and Oregon Spring, two of the best known ones.
And yes, I've discussed parthenocarpy here at GW recently.
*****
Do they produce for you in both cooler and warmer temperatures?
I've only grown Oregon Spring and would not grow it again. legend was bred primarily for its supposed tolerance to Late Blight ( P. infestans) but those in the PNW who have grown it seem to agree that it isn't very tolerant as well as not being very tasty.
******
Do they have good flavor?
Based just on Oregon Spring and feedback from Legend and some others taste is not outstanding, probably b'c fruit development is quite abnormal
Other comments I can make are that since there's no pollen mediated fertilization of the ovules in the tomato ovary there are few to no seeds in the fruits but later in the season a few seeds may appear.
Again, b'c fruit development is abnormal fruits can be mishapen as well as mushy.
It's just my opinion but I would not consider any of the parthenocarpic varieties to be a prime choice to escape blossom drop due to high heat or humidity induced clumped pollen which are are probably the two major causes of blossom drop.
The product Blossom Set was developed for use in cold spring areas such as the PNW where temps are too cool to allow for normal self pollenization and it too induces parthenocarpy.
Different brand names of it have different plant hormones, one of them being indole acetic acid and they induce the parthenocarpy.
It generally isn't used where temps are OK for pollenization but I suppose you could try it on the first blossoms where you are to see if it does induce partheocarpy as well on varieties that inherently have good taste.
However, I think that abnormal fruit development as I mentioned above would be my hesitation.
I have quite a few friends in zone 9 CA and they all get their plants out early enough that most of the time they get little to no blossom drop and fruits ripen up normally.
So I think by adjusting your seed starting and planting out date you can circumvent most of the blossom drop and grow varieties with super taste as others in your zone do. Hope that helps. Carolyn

[BlackestKrim]

Originally Posted by tedln

Okay, I did my research on parthenocarpic tomatoes. The plants may or may not perform any better in the high heat. Parthenocarpic only means the blossoms do not require pollination to produce fruit. A parthenocarpic variety may still suffer from high heat enough to not produce blooms. They should produce more fruit in normally productive climates because "insufficient pollination" will not matter.

Ted

I thought that the effect of heat was primarily that it rendered the pollen sterile, resulting in lack of fertilization. Parthenocarpic fruits, not requiring pollination, shouldn't care. Does heat also prevent any formation of blossoms, as well?

I have no experience with parthenocarpic tomatoes, beyond that I grow Golden Nugget, which is said to have some parthenocarpic blossoms. It is determinant, however, so the plants are done by the time the heat comes around.

There just doesnt seem to be a lot of experience trying parthenocarpic fruits in hot temperatures. There is speculation, but not people saying what they've seen from trying it out.

[b54red]

It is true that usually the best production comes from the earlier plantings; but since I lose so many tomatoes to fusarium and TSWV I always stagger my plantings and have a lot of backups through the whole growing season. Two years ago it was a very good thing that I did because 48 of the 50 tomatoes planted in early March died to an unusually early onslaught of fusarium and temps near 100 very early in the year. That year my best plant out date was June 15. After mid June of that year we had rains constantly and an unusually cool second half to the summer. Other than a lot of splitting my tomatoes produced from June til January that year. It took a lot of spraying because the humidity and rain caused a real plague of foliage diseases. So far this year I have lost only one plant to TSWV but that will surely increase if the number of thrips I am seeing is any indication and I have only one plant, a Mountain Princess, dying of fusarium right now but I know with certainty the fusarium will increase dramatically with these high temperatures warming the soil.

Blackestkrim,

Some of my spring planted varieties simply die in the highest heat of summer. Other varieties seem to enter a state of dormancy, not growing, and not blooming again until cooler weather arrives. A few "heat tolerant" varieties continue growing slowly and producing a few blossoms, but the blossoms can't pollinate until it cools a little. I've had a few hybrid varieties such as "Goliath Bush" and possibly "Big Beef" and many cherry varieties which seem to simply ignore the heat and continue fruiting. Since pollen seems to become ineffective at higher temps and humidity, those varieties which blossom and fruit at higher temps may be exhibiting parthenocarpic traits. I read that some plants (not just tomatoes) can exhibit the trait under some conditions, but reproduce normally under different conditions. The fruit produced in high heat may be seedless and if seed is produced, it may be sterile.

Ted

[Dave1337]

Hi,

I live in south Louisiana and this year I am growing several varieties including Creole. I have better success when I grow 4-5 varieties. In past years I have also had some problems with the heat sometimes greater than 95 degrees fahrenheit. This year I am trying the Floradade Tomato developed by the university of Florida. I figure if they can withstand the south Florida heat... they should have no problem with south Louisiana.

I recommend the following for the hot southern Louisiana climate:

Creole
Cherokee Purple
Super Sioux
Arkansas Traveler
Costoluto Genovese
Costoluto Fiorentino

This year I am experimenting with Burgess Trip-L-Crop which is a potato leaf variety and so far they are looking very good.

One last thing... the soil is calcium deficient in most parts of Louisiana so make sure you add a little lime or bone meal to your compost. If your growing organically then you can use an old Louisiana favorite: Oyster shell meal straight from Lake Pontchartrain.

[attml]

A good hard flick worked well for me last summer. As soon as I see a flower open that plant gets several good hard flicks. Seemed to work very will for my picky Brandywine last year. Maryland had one of those summers last year where there was a crazy amount of days over 90 degrees with extreme humidity (something like 52 out of 60 days were over 90 degrees). I couldn't get my brandywine to produce a single tomato. I had flowers but I was getting a lot of blossum drop. I read about giving the plant several good hard flicks on the stem near the flower in the morning before it gets too hot to help the plant self germinate. I didn't start doing this until August (our hottest month). As soon as I started flicking the Brandywine started producing tomatoes. I guess the heat and humidity causes the pollen to get sticky and clumpy and the vibration from the hard flick is enough to move things around in the flower to help germination? Germination of flowers was about 70-80 percent after I started flicking. I have been flicking already this year and I have tomatoes growing already which makes me very happy considering our frost date was 3 days ago.

Mark

[b54red]

Dave, I have no luck at all with Costoluto Genovese here because it seems to have no tolerance to fusarium. It always grows very vigorously and sets a bunch of fruit then starts dying. Arkansas Traveler is also not one that is a major producer because it also has problems with fusarium but not as bad.

For just downright production during the hottest times of the summer I don't know of another tomato as productive and durable year after year as Big Beef. Of the OP varieties you might want to try Neves Azorean Red, Indian Stripe, JDs Special C Tex, Old Virginia, Linnie's Oxheart, Kosovo, Berkley Tie Dye Pink, and Gary O' Sena. They were all outstanding producers for me last year during an extremely long hot summer. I'm trying nearly 100 varieties this year and hopefully will find some more varieties that can tolerate our heat and humidity. The big problem for me is also finding varieties that have a little tolerance to fusarium wilt.

[Dave1337]

b54red,
I am very thankful that I do not seem to have fusarium in my soil yet. Thanks for the suggestions... I am interested in testing several of the varieties you have listed. My instints tell me that Indian Stripe, Berkley Tie Dye Pink, and Gary O' Sena will do well here on my land.

Regarding your fusarium problem... I hear that there isn't much you can do once its in your soil. But have you tried burning your tomato beds right before planting? In early Febuary before planting I haul all of the leaves and brush from the winter into my tomato area and spread it around so it ends up being an average of 2+ feet deep. I set it on fire with the full intention of destroying any fungi and weeds to give my tomatoes a head start.
-Dave

I don't know if the soil borne pathogens like fusarium reside only in the upper layer of soil or if they penetrate the soil deeply. If they go deep, the fire probably will have little or no effect. I haven't experienced the fusarium problem and hope I don't, but I am wondering if treatments such as bleach will have an effect.

I may try one raised bed this fall simply to see what effect it has on plants the following year. I believe I will wait until enough cold winter has arrived to drive the earthworms really deep and cause the soil to be really dry. I suppose I will then saturate the soil with a pretty strong bleach/water solution possibly three times, one week apart. I know if it kills the bad stuff, it will also kill the good stuff, but the good microbes can be re-established fairly quickly. The chlorine in the bleach will be quickly neutralized by the soil and should dissipate quickly. It shouldn't have a long term effect on the soil except to kill good and bad organisms.


Ted

Lots of good ideas in this thread to help the tomatoes "beat the heat". I'm curious if anyone has experienced good results from really cutting plants back severely when they appear to be dieing in the heat. I have experienced lots of new growth from old growth when I do that. I haven't done it enough to say it makes a production difference in the heat. I believe new growth equals new blooms which normally equals the possibility of more fruit. It may induce more fruit set in the heat, but I can't say. If you do it successfully, what are the rules? For example, do you only cut back the tips or do you cut back to the main stem and leave the tip on the main stem.

I will probably replace the determinate varieties which suffer in the heat. I would prefer to be able to use the established root system and main stem of the indeterminates, I like; to produce a fall crop. The varieties that don't impress me will be replaced

Ted

[b54red]

Ted I have used a mild bleach solution about the same strength as what I spray diseased plants with. My beds are full of earthworms and they do not like the bleach. What I do is after I lose a plant to fusarium I will sometimes drench that one spot a day or two before replanting a tomato in that spot. That way I don't kill many worms and it gives the plant a little time before the fusarium returns to the area. I did it last year and it did seem effective. I only do this in spots where a tomato is rapidly killed by fusarium. If a plant slowly dies from it after being very productive I assume there is not a really heavy infestation in that spot or that the plant has some resistance and I don't usually treat that spot before replanting. I would definitely not drench my whole bed with the bleach solution. I think that cure might be worse than the disease.

[bonefish]

Originally Posted by mysidx

Starting seed early sounds good, but you know how it is here around February, warm then freeze warm then freeze. I guess there's not much i can do about it. I'll keep looking and thanks for the tip.

I live in Houston and what I did was transplant into pots in early Feb. and set out on the patio and if a freeze was coming, I just brought them inside. When it warmed up, out they went. Then in March I planted them in earthtainers. Now I've got plants full of tomatoes and 7' tall.

[b54red]

I set out some of my plants as early as I could but was hampered by the very cool greenhouse temps. My plants though seeded early just grew very slow due to lack of light and heat. I was finally able to set some out on March 16 and some more on March 19. The rest had to wait for my brocolli, cabbage, lettuce, Bussel Sprouts and rutabagas to finish so I had a place to put some more. I'm still setting out plants every time it cools off for a few days and just finished tilling up my last bed where carrots and broccoli just finished. I wish I still had my rabbit pen because I don't know what I'll do with 40 lbs of carrots. I'm still hoping the second half of the summer will be cooler than it is starting out and all of the late plantings will have a chance.