I'm done with organic ferts for seedlings

[Cole_Robbie]

Damping off is just killing me. I have been using Alaskan Fish and Fertilome fish emulsion on a peat-based pro mix. Last year I had a little compost in the mix, and that definitely made it worse. A little bit of that compost made it into a few cell trays this year and those plants got damping off the worst. Cold, wet weather makes it worse.

My media mix is still turning mucky and green on the top with algae. Vermiculite seems to make it worse by holding more moisture. Perlite I think makes the problem better by increasing aeration. I have been mixing more perlite into the pro mix.

From what I read, composting organic matter feeds all organisms, both good and bad. I seem to have plenty of bad around. I am using mycogrow and it does not seem to help. The greenhouse was well below freezing for days at a time last winter; I don't know how much that helped.

I am going to switch to a some generic miracle grow I have and use it in very tiny amounts to see if that makes any difference.

[Doug9345]

I started a bunch or pepper seed in straight compost this year. I had 100% germination at 7 days. Two immediately started to damp off. I hit the pot with a 1% solution of H2O2 (2 parts water to one part drug store H202). That seemed to stop the damping off in it's tracks. How I treated it was to tip the cup and flood the H2O2 solution across the surface.

I don't know if it only the two where going to damp off or I cured it, but it's worth a shot.

[luigiwu]

Are you bottom watering? People I know have had great results with worm castings mixed in potting mix. I have yet to harvest my first batch of worm castings so I havent even fertilized. I thought fertilizers werent' needed until you plant out?

[Tormato]

With small seedlings, I only bottom water or edge water. If I make a slip and water gets against the stem, damping off is very likely.

[CornHusker]

Over the past few seasons I've been going more the direction Doug mentions with good success (compost or compost mixed in). Last year I started covering the seeds with coarse vermiculite with good success - 2 seedlings of ~120 had damping off issues.

This year, I mixed perlite & compost (50% each), and covered with coarse vermiculite. Germination times are much faster - 3 days for tom's, 3-4 days on sweet peppers, 5 days on most hot peppers. Only 1 seedling in 150 that germinated didn't make it; due purely to grower error... I also like that it prevents over watering which my wife admits she is good at ;-) I get a 3.8 cu ft bag for ~$21

Might be worth a try... Also, really like Doug's advice on H2O2 and as he mentioned, the key is to catch it immediately.

[RayR]

The type of ferts you use have nothing to do with susceptibility to damping off pathogens.
The spores may be in your seed starting mix, your compost or they may be just prevalent in your environment. The last time I got damping off was in straight Jiffy Mix and that's supposed to be sterile.
I believe you are right about Vermiculite contributing to the problem by holding too much moisture. Algae grows on anything as long as there is moisture and light. It's just something you have to live with or just scrape it off the top of the medium from time to time. Too much algae will decrease aeration at the surface of the medium and may contribute to damping off pathogens prospering and the beneficial aerobic microorganisms not.
Perlite is made from hydrated obsidian which has a high silica content, silicates seem to be natural deterrents to damping off pathogens. Hydroponic growers are highly susceptible to damping off fungal and Oomycetes pathogens, which is one reason soluble potassium silicate is commonly used to combat root rot.
Some green house growers use a layer of coarse sand or decomposed granite (bird grit) on top of the medium to deter damping off pathogens from infecting the stem at the soil line. I've done that and never had seedlings killed. Granular Diatomaceous Earth will also work that way or growing seeding in granular Diatomateous Earth has been very successful when dealing with damping off. Ask b54Red, he has practically dealt with every plant pathogen known to man where he lives.

[nnjjohn]

hello all, my seedlings are looking very good so far using the mg seedling potting mix,, (blue and green 8 lb bag for four dollars and change at home depot.. one 8lb. bag is more than enough to easily fill two 72 cell trays.. i like it so much, i bought another bag for potting the seedlings in 3 inch cups.. they look healthy for their size... all I can say is this stuff is the best I've experienced thus far for seed starter. I read on the bag it is fortified with the essential minerals and fertilizer to enhance seedling growth. Never use potting mix..even the mg potting soil is a no no.. you must understand the difference.. I also want to add.. let the seedlings stay in the cells till they have true leaves..i notice even after three inches, transplanting some into the three inch cups,, stuns them ( they don't grow as fast as the ones left in the seedling tray cells which seem to be growing faster /bigger leaves .. but even my stunned ones in the cups all look healthy.. plus the ones in the cups i buried deeper.. but they will catch up I'm sure. I only use very little diluted mg drops to a quart of filtered water for watering the seedling mix ..i just pour onto slowly just enough to keep each cell damp.. (never dry but never soaked) I baby sit about forty or so seedlings..sometimes if the sun is hitting them extra long time on the window sill, I have to water at end of day.. usually once a day is enough.. So far no dampening issues.. looks like I'll have more than enough to share with friends and families after i get what I want in my beds which won't be for another month or so!

[Cole_Robbie]

Originally Posted by RayR

The type of ferts you use have nothing to do with susceptibility to damping off pathogens.

Well I guess we're going to find out, because I am sick of smelling like rotten fish. I had tolerated it because I thought it was good fertilizer. It certainly seems popular.

This stuff should be called 'Bag-O-DampnOff:' http://www.menards.com/main/outdoors...88-c-10116.htm It seems like everything I plant in this mix dies. I even lost cabbage plants to damping off with it.

I guess chemical ferts are the large-scale commercial standard because of price? I use so little that I can't tell the difference in cost.

My greenhouse plants get cold at night, into the 30's. Everything seems worse when the weather is colder, and I don't have sunny days. Today is sunny, so the greenhouse temp is in the upper 80's. Maybe it is my cold nights that make damping off so much worse for me.

Regarding hydroponic plants, they tend to get pythium in the form of root rot. The solution is easy - just aerate the nutrient solution better. I am hoping using more perlite in my mix can accomplish the same thing.

[RayR]

Originally Posted by Cole_Robbie

Well I guess we're going to find out, because I am sick of smelling like rotten fish. I had tolerated it because I thought it was good fertilizer. It certainly seems popular.

Your not supposed to fertilize yourself with fish hydrolyzate
Fish emulsions smell worse to me.
I never had a problem with the smell after diluting and applying it. The microbes degrade the odor pretty fast.

Originally Posted by Cole_Robbie

This stuff should be called 'Bag-O-DampnOff:' http://www.menards.com/main/outdoors...88-c-10116.htm It seems like everything I plant in this mix dies. I even lost cabbage plants to damping off with it.

Now you can't blame the Pro-Mix without eliminating other sources that may be the source of whatever pathogen is causing damping off. You can get damping off from spores in your water as well as the air. Your greenhouse itself may be harboring the spores.

Originally Posted by Cole_Robbie

I guess chemical ferts are the large-scale commercial standard because of price? I use so little that I can't tell the difference in cost.

It's always easy to sell something because it's cheap and easy. Of course they never do explain the downside that can happen later on. But they are always ready to sell you other chemicals to try to correct what the others caused.

Originally Posted by Cole_Robbie

My greenhouse plants get cold at night, into the 30's. Everything seems worse when the weather is colder, and I don't have sunny days. Today is sunny, so the greenhouse temp is in the upper 80's. Maybe it is my cold nights that make damping off so much worse for me.

That's what bothers me, those wildly fluctuation temperatures. Cool and wet conditions select for the pathogens and decrease the biological activity of the good guys. The bad guys are parasites, they aren't interested in your fertilizer for food, they need a living host to survive and reproduce. Cold soil conditions also weakens the plants own biological activity.

Originally Posted by Cole_Robbie

Regarding hydroponic plants, they tend to get pythium in the form of root rot. The solution is easy - just aerate the nutrient solution better. I am hoping using more perlite in my mix can accomplish the same thing.

The Pythium that causes root rot in hydroponics is the same Pythium that causes damping off in soil. The big difference is the Pythium is hydroponics gets a free ride around the reservoir making it easier to find its victim without much resistance by other microbes.

[topazgirl170]

Originally Posted by Cole_Robbie

Well I guess we're going to find out, because I am sick of smelling like rotten fish. I had tolerated it because I thought it was good fertilizer. It certainly seems popular.

This stuff should be called 'Bag-O-DampnOff:' http://www.menards.com/main/outdoors...88-c-10116.htm It seems like everything I plant in this mix dies.

I used this Pro Mix Ultimate last year in my earthboxes and another SWC . I loved it and had NO problems. I didn't have any issues with fungus or growing. But I didn't use it as a seed starting mix, I used it to grow established vegetable plants

Also, I had really good results last season with using Neptune's Harvest Fish/Seaweed blend.

[Sodak]

Originally Posted by topazgirl170

I used this Pro Mix Ultimate last year in my earthboxes and another SWC . I loved it and had NO problems. I didn't have any issues with fungus or growing. But I didn't use it as a seed starting mix, I used it to grow established vegetable plants

Also, I had really good results last season with using Neptune's Harvest Fish/Seaweed blend.

I use Pro Mix Ultimate in both raised beds and smart pots last year and it worked great. I do not use it for seed starting either. And I used Neptune's harvest as a foliage spray. And Texas Tomato food as the main fert.
Combo of these things worked great.

[Cole_Robbie]

To update this thread, I am still getting damping off when using chemical fertilizer.

All I can think of is to try a different pro mix next year. Two years ago I had a Fafard mix that was mainly pine bark fines instead of peat. It's double the price of the Menard's mix, but might be worth it. I don't think I lost any plants to damping off in that mix.

[clkeiper]

How early are you fertilizing? I always wait to see the first real leaves before I apply fertilizer to my plants. I do agree with you thought that those products encourage fungal growth.

I actually started keeping rabbits just for the lovely fertilizer they produce. Mix it in a bucket of water and water the young plants sparingly.

The media does hold too much water sometimes and fertilizer and moisture can't be utilized because there isn't enough root system yet. Always wait for a sunny day to fertilize, too. It seems to make a difference for me.

I won't add anything to my starting mix when I am starting seeds. I want as sterile of a media as I can start them in. Compost and other organics are oozing with lifeform.

[drew51]

I used MG and also tried pure Diatomaceous Earth. Both worked. A mix of the two or DE on top would be good too. I have heard people with damping off problems have had success with DE. I didn't lose any to damping off. I did have a lot of fungus gnats from the MG! Currently it's 40 F outside, but 70 in my coldframe. Here are my peppers and tomatoes (far side) so far.

[Doug9345]

I'm beginning to believe that there is more to damping off than just the presences of the fungus. Obviously high humidity makes it worse, but as someone else mentioned here you can have one plant die from it and less than an inch away another thrive. I'm beginning to suspect mechanical damage may play a part. The fish peppers that I had problems with have been move twice daily and a plastic covering laid on them for a while. I have wondered this week if something like a sharp piece of sand in the mix nicks the stem an gives a tiny foothold into the stem.