A garden is only as good as the ground that it's planted in. Discussion forum for the many ways to improve the soil where we plant our gardens.
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June 12, 2013 | #1 |
Tomatovillian™
Join Date: May 2012
Location: SW Ohio
Posts: 637
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Adding 'found' organic material results
I've been collecting all sorts of leaves, pine cones, etc and lately the toad stools that seem to be popping up all over the place to add to my no till garden experiment.
Have any of you added them before? |
June 14, 2013 | #2 |
Tomatovillian™
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Iowa Zone 5
Posts: 305
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Zeroma,
Hoping all sorts of leaves do not include walnut tree leaves (or hedge) as these will inhibit plant growth. Pine cones are pretty acid and for my own garden I don't consider them as useful. For your composter, if you add and equal (approx.) amount of leaves and grass clippings from untreated lawns you should have some fine stuff for soil amendment.
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Tomatovillain |
June 14, 2013 | #3 |
Tomatovillian™
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Houston, TX - 9a
Posts: 211
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I wouldn't use the pine cones either, unless you completely break them up.
I think one of the coolest things is burying logs horizontally (hugelkultur) or smaller branches vertically, especially those that decay fast. The vertical branches provide routes for water, air, earthworms, and everything else to travel up and down within the soil. It can take a lot of work though. Which is which prefer for these routes to just grow in place, so I don't have to dig (ie, clay-busting cover crops). |
June 14, 2013 | #4 |
Tomatovillian™
Join Date: May 2012
Location: SW Ohio
Posts: 637
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Thanks for the replies. I do try to break the pine cones up. And my soil needs acid! The soil here in Ohio is limestone based clay and usually runs on the base side. "Hugelkultur" YouTubes are interesting to watch, but look too 'messy' for me, since this no till garden area is my front yard. I have no grass, so no grass clippings and all of my neighbor's/friends use chemicals on their lawns.
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June 17, 2013 | #5 |
Tomatovillian™
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 4,488
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There is always the leaves in fall and growing your own "green manure" between crops. Things like annual clovers alfalfa etc. They do double duty. You can clip them for the clippings used for mulch and they fix nitrogen too. Just a thought.
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Scott AKA The Redbaron "Permaculture is a philosophy of working with, rather than against nature; of protracted & thoughtful observation rather than protracted & thoughtless labour; & of looking at plants & animals in all their functions, rather than treating any area as a single-product system." Bill Mollison co-founder of permaculture |
June 26, 2013 | #6 |
Tomatovillian™
Join Date: May 2012
Location: SW Ohio
Posts: 637
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Thanks Scott. annual clovers sound interesting as a 'ground cover/green manure'. Is it just like the sort you see growing in residentuals lawns? And how tall is alfalfa?
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June 26, 2013 | #7 | |
Tomatovillian™
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 4,488
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Quote:
But here is a place to start. Crimson clover cover crop
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Scott AKA The Redbaron "Permaculture is a philosophy of working with, rather than against nature; of protracted & thoughtful observation rather than protracted & thoughtless labour; & of looking at plants & animals in all their functions, rather than treating any area as a single-product system." Bill Mollison co-founder of permaculture |
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July 1, 2013 | #8 |
Tomatovillian™
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: PNW
Posts: 4,743
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You can look up descriptions of a lot of cover crops,
including various clovers, here: http://www.sarep.ucdavis.edu/database/covercrops The stuff that one typically finds in lawns is some kind of white clover: http://www.sarep.ucdavis.edu/database/covercrops Clovers do come in all heights, though: http://www.beetberry.com/BeetberryIm...verCropRay.jpg
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July 1, 2013 | #9 |
Tomatovillian™
Join Date: May 2012
Location: SW Ohio
Posts: 637
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Thanks for the posts. One of the main garden leaders said the oats is the usual cover crop in this part of Ohio, so that will likely be what we use. I still need to discuss it with the garden group. Area has been too wet to use Round Up and I'm hoping it won't have to be used.
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July 1, 2013 | #10 |
Tomatovillian™
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Iowa Zone 5
Posts: 305
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Z,
I don't see where your, 'how tall does alfalfa get' question was answered. For me between 24" and 32" tall. My alfalfa seed source from Skyfire, Kanopolis KS, which is a packet for non-farming operations like small gardens. I've also grown annual rye many times, and it is great for erosion control, but of course does not add N.
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Tomatovillain |
July 2, 2013 | #11 | |
Tomatovillian™
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 4,488
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Quote:
So yes, they don't "add" nitrogen. But they do "hold" nitrogen and prevent it from leaching away. Further, there are free living nitrogen fixing bacteria that can be quite high in healthy soil. Turns out that material with a high carbon to nitrogen ratio tend to keep these free living nitrogen fixing bacteria fed, and healthy soil will tend to try and reach that 10-1 ratio even if it started much higher. There can be a delay, since the nitrogen is not available to the crops until the bacteria dies, and it won't die until the high carbon material is decomposed to the point it isn't usable as a food source for them anymore. But if you keep the cycle going and use blends of both high and low ratio crops and materials, in the end it will reach a balance that is ideal for you plants. There is just so many subtle interdependencies going on that it is really hard to explain. But you can see it when it happens.
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Scott AKA The Redbaron "Permaculture is a philosophy of working with, rather than against nature; of protracted & thoughtful observation rather than protracted & thoughtless labour; & of looking at plants & animals in all their functions, rather than treating any area as a single-product system." Bill Mollison co-founder of permaculture |
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July 22, 2013 | #12 |
Tomatovillian™
Join Date: May 2012
Location: SW Ohio
Posts: 637
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thanks again Redbaron and all others.
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