give up or plan for 2024?

[paradajky]

Hi:
We began the season strong and once into July and August, evident the plants were failing. I've posted about both container and in-ground garden troubles to tomatoville, and this specific post is about our in-ground situation. You can read the history I've posted since 2021 here.

Removing the dead plants, I dug into the soil, and yep, as I discovered last year, horrible root problem from.. who knows what. So many roots. Likely this is causing the problems. Also kind of odd after all the amendments over the years, most broke down and the clay soil is still a very hard clay.

I don't know what to do next. These are some options I can think of:
1. give up and just buy tomatoes from the market
2. Try to make another bed (this would mean weeks of back-breaking work)
3. Try a cover crop again
4. compost the heck out of it over winter
5. herbicide drench for the winter, let rest for 2024, grow in 2025
6. ???

The enclosed pictures show the extent of the roots from two beds we typically try to grow from (first pic is one bed, the second two are the other bed). The excessive roots in one picture are after I run my hand in an arc in the dirt a few times collecting whatever rakes between my fingers.

Thoughts?

[rxkeith]

no trees or shrubs nearby? whats near the bed thats alive?


clay soil isn't bad. i grew in clay for years. leaves added every year made a difference
after 30 years or so, but it was still clay soil.


mebbe try a bed in a new spot, or have some kind of root barrier put in.
i have had a garden surrounded by huge maple trees. it took me a week to dig a
12 x 12 ft garden with a pick axe to get rid of the root network. it got easier after
the first year.


give up?


never.




keith

[MrsJustice]

You just need someone with a small Tiller and Natural Compose.

[paradajky]

Keith: nearby trees include various palm trees, fruit trees, a couple macadamia nut trees, italian cypruses, peppertrees, some cacti. I'm not sure of all the varieties. Each is 2-15 meters away. The nearest are the fruit trees (fig, plum, feijoa, apple).


Both of the beds have an old history of raspberries/blackberries, some stick up behind the barriers now. When I did the double-dig/till in 2021, there were bunches of roots I dug out, and that didn't make an impact, all the roots were likely back as the plants were miserable.


Probably will look for another place to put a garden bed, but that is going to be some horribly back-breaking work... taking up several yards of dirt up a hill in a wheelbarrow is not fun for this city slicker. Uggh.

[ddsack]

I have learned to live with my tree roots, as removing the trees is not an option. We planted a couple of rows of 12 inch high baby spruce trees when we moved onto this property 40 some years ago. At the time, it seemed like the garden plot was far enough away to not be affected. Now that the trees are mature, the roots creep into the raised beds for the closest 3-4 ft on the north sides of the beds. I used to dig and pull by hand, but my aging back demanded I get a small Mantis tiller to help rip them out. I till in the fall once the beds are cleared, and then again in the spring before planting. The tomato plants at the affected ends of the beds start looking a little starved after mid-season, I assume the tree roots have invaded again by that time. I don't know if dumping late extra fertilizer on the plants would help, or just feed the trees roots. I get enough tomatoes from my garden overall that I don't really worry too much about the reduced harvest from the end plants. But I only have one side to worry about, it sounds like you may have enough trees to surround the garden and come in from all sides. I don't envy you the raspberry roots, I made the mistake of planting raspberries along one edge of the garden, and it took several years of digging out the strays to get them all.

[Labradors2]

Marsha used to be a member here. She lives in FL, and very successfully grows over 100 tomato plants in Earth boxes (two to a box). The problem she has with her soil is nematodes.
So there's a thought.

Linda

[paradajky]

Hi Linda: I've actually been doing the poor-man's version of an earthbox, I grew in double-bucket at my home, using a rain gutter underneath to keep them watered (you can read my struggles here). Results have been okay. This is an option to consider that might be a little easier than growing in a new garden bed, as long as we can figure out the container soil mix and feeding.



I also tried the locally available "EMSCO Group" version of the earthbox, and my tomato plants have been very stunted in this box.. perhaps it's the depth, but I did not think 1-2" would make such a difference.

[James_57]

If that is Virginia creeper in picture 2 that is a horrible plant near a garden. I have a juniper at one end my planting bed I cut a trench about a foot wide and deep every spring, tomatoes don't grow good there but cantaloup does great there.

[Milan HP]

Hello Paradajky,
my solution to a similar problem (a nearby walnut tree and juglone in the soil) was a raised bed with a 5-inch polystyrene and wire mesh (that because of rodents) underneath. There's a problem, though. I'll have to shade it from direct sunshine in summer, so that the soil doesn't get overheated. In Cal it might be even worse.

If I were you, I'd probably put in the necessary back-breaking labor and dig a trench, insulate it with something impenetrable for the roots a fill it with fertile mix. But of course, unlike you, I am retired.

Milan HP

[MrsJustice]

Originally Posted by Milan HP

Hello Paradajky,
my solution to a similar problem (a nearby walnut tree and juglone in the soil) was a raised bed with a 5-inch polystyrene and wire mesh (that because of rodents) underneath. There's a problem, though. I'll have to shade it from direct sunshine in summer, so that the soil doesn't get overheated. In Cal it might be even worse.

If I were you, I'd probably put in the necessary back-breaking labor and dig a trench, insulate it with something impenetrable for the roots a fill it with fertile mix. But of course, unlike you, I am retired.

Milan HP

Just Beautiful, Amen!!

[ddsack]

That is a beautiful box, Milan! How I wish we still had small family lumber mills around here, where you could buy untreated wood and end slab cuts. Unfortunately they all disappeared about 30 years ago and now it's all big box stores with commercial lumber. I can't wait to see how your box looks when fully planted!