Seed saving methods...

[huntsman]

Looking up seed saving in the search slot, I have found many posts in several threads, but most centre around fermenting seeds.

Is fermentation the way to go, or is there an alternative?

[Tom C zone 4/5]

For tomaro seeds, I think your going to find more advocates (a lot more) than objectors.

[jeffinjonestown]

I tried the Oxiclean method for the first time this year, and it was so much easier. I am anxious to see what the future holds for them as far as germination and disease goes. Fingers crossed, and I will report on how the germination compares for me in a few months.

[alamo5000]

Just asking a stupid question here...

how DO you save seeds? I never saved any at all.

Brief explaination is fine.

[amideutch]

Here is a pretty good tutorial done up by one of our members, "ContainerTed". Check it out at the following link and while your there check out the rest of the site. Ami

http://tatianastomatobase.com/wiki/A...g_Fermentation

[Lee]

That's a pretty good explanation, but I skip a lot of steps...
Here's mine.
1. Label small cup with tomato name.
2. Cut tomato in half.
3. Squeeze seeds from both halves into cup.
4. Put cup away to ferment.
5. 4~5 days later, empty cup into small sieve.
6. Wash seeds with water until clean.
7. Dump onto plate to dry.

While there are other methods that are effective as well, I figure this one is about
as close to what happens in nature as you can get.
And if it's good enough for nature, it's good enough for me!

Lee

[alamo5000]

Thanks guys!

I get tons of volunteer tomatoes all the time but I never saved any seeds.

Maybe I will try...

[carolyn137]

And here's the method that Mike Dunton who owns Victory Seeds uses:

http://www.vintageveggies.com/inform...ve_tomato.html

And there's another link at the bottom of the above link.

I prefer fermentation b'c it's natural and b'c data is known as to how effective it is in removing possible pathogens from the seed coat. Such information is not known for Comet, Oxiclean, etc., methods, and I know that b'c at another message site there was a good discussion about it and the main person discussing it with me is a very experienced tomato grower and a top notch finding data via Google person.

it was Dr. Helene Dillard who was working at the USDA station in Geneva, NY who did all the early work on pathogen removal via fermentation funded by a grant from I think Campbell, but it could have bneen Heinz.

Fermentation cannot eliminate viruses or bacterial pathogens b'c the data so far says they're in the endosperm of the seed, not outside. And not all pathogens are removed via fermention, but they are greatly lessened and since infection is a quantitative process the chances of passing on diseases is lessened.

hot water treatment is needed to reduce the level of bacterial pathogens from the endosperm, something that can be done for commercial farmers but not so great for a home gardener b'c of loss of viability of seeds.

Just a couple of points I'd like to make.

I use one pint plastic deli containers so I can see in and moniter the fermentation. I don't use any covers b'c you want the fungi and bacteria in the air to fall in and form the mat that you saw in Mike's picture.

I'll use smaller containers if I have just a couple of fruits but again, it depends on the size of the fruits and how juicy they are.

I don't add water unless it's needed and what I mean is that the consistency of the fermentation mix is what I look at and if it's too thick I water it down a little.

Moniter the process so the containers don't go dry or you'll have over fermented seeds which can range in color from dark brown ( usually OK) to black ( usually not OK). Look for bubbles along the sides of the container to know that all is progressing.

No one can say how long it takes to get complete fermentation and the seeds have mostly separated from the gook and the gel capsules have been removed. It's something you just learn by experience since temps and humidity all play a role in how fast the process progresses. In late Fall with fermentations outside I have to wait for at least a week or more. Warmer temps and the enzymes that do the work act faster.

Tap out the seeds onto a paper plate, not a coated one, so that the seeds dry faster and be sure to spread the seeds aorund so they won't germinate if left in a pile.

Now I don't mean to gross out anyone, but most of us who ferment tomato seeds do it outside so that the smells are kept outside and b'c of that flies/wasps can land on the mix and that can lead to maggots.

Don't worry about it after decanting the mix several times in processing the seeds b/c some of the maggots will remain and end up on your drying plates.

Just sit there and as the water dries up you can watch the maggots die. Beats other forms of recreation that are options to that.

[tam91]

Wow Carolyn, you really know how to have a good time. Drying, dying maggots - can my heart stand the excitement?

[kath]

Originally Posted by tam91

Wow Carolyn, you really know how to have a good time. Drying, dying maggots - can my heart stand the excitement?

Didn't think mine could so in this, my first year, I went with the Oxiclean method and it really was fun! I did up to 12 varieties at a time and had the seeds drying on paper plates in an hour max. Didn't want to deal with mold, icky smells, fruit flies, maggots , etc. all summer and fall.

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by kath

Didn't think mine could so in this, my first year, I went with the Oxiclean method and it really was fun! I did up to 12 varieties at a time and had the seeds drying on paper plates in an hour max. Didn't want to deal with mold, icky smells, fruit flies, maggots , etc. all summer and fall.

At least the maggots are are known possible problem seen in actually few of my fermentations whereas when processing seeds by oxiclean or other similar methods you have no idea what percentage of pathogens are removed from the seed coat as I mentioned in a post above whereas with fermentation those experiments have been done. And for those who ask, no, I don't think any of that data is still on the net and i ahd several phone calls with Dr. Dillard about it.

Bad smells with fermentation? Possibly. it depends on the specific organic acids that a particular variety might have, and it shouldn't be a problem if the containers are outside in the shade. And lastly, it's written in some book somewhere that all new tomato seed savers MUST do some fermentations.....it's part of the initiation process.

Now that I think about it there are some cheeses that I like that smell just as bad as any effluvia from a tomato fermentation process.

[kath]

Originally Posted by carolyn137

At least the maggots are are known possible problem seen in actually few of my fermentations whereas when processing seeds by oxiclean or other similar methods you have no idea what percentage of pathogens are removed from the seed coat as I mentioned in a post above whereas with fermentation those experiments have been done."

NOTICE: Anyone who has received seeds from me this year that weren't from a commercial source should consider using a bleach treatment before sowing.

"And lastly, it's written in some book somewhere that all new tomato seed savers MUST do some fermentations.....it's part of the initiation process."

Only if you want to join their club?

"Now that I think about it there are some cheeses that I like that smell just as bad as any effluvia from a tomato fermentation process.

And you won't find any of them in my refrigerator!

[carolyn137]

Kath, I'm afraid my sense of humor isn't coming through to you and you're taking me far too seriously methinks, perhaps.

******
At least the maggots are are known possible problem seen in actually few of my fermentations whereas when processing seeds by oxiclean or other similar methods you have no idea what percentage of pathogens are removed from the seed coat as I mentioned in a post above whereas with fermentation those experiments have been done."

(NOTICE: Anyone who has received seeds from me this year that weren't from a commercial source should consider using a bleach treatment before sowing.)

That might help. And there's no real way of knowing, from most seed sources, how the seeds they sell have been processed. it depends on whether they grow most of their own tomatoes for seed, or subcontract out, or buy off the shelf or buy directly from the company that developed a variety, or a combo of any of the above.

******

"And lastly, it's written in some book somewhere that all new tomato seed savers MUST do some fermentations.....it's part of the initiation process."

(Only if you want to join their club? )

I see your wink, but again, there is no club, just an oft used comment when the subject of fermentation comes up and it didn't originate with me.

"Now that I think about it there are some cheeses that I like that smell just as bad as any effluvia from a tomato fermentation process.
(And you won't find any of them in my refrigerator! )

I'm thinking primarily of the earthy smells of Brie and Camembert which are two soft cheeses with a rind that I absolutely love and I'm sure that there are others here who also like them.

[kath]

Hi, Carolyn!

Not going to dissect that post again, as my head is spinning from trying to read your last one!
I think it might have been my sense of humor that didn't come through-I was just being silly. But I was serious about letting people know that I didn't ferment my seeds just in case they want to take precautions.

Since Huntsman requested information about alternatives to fermenting, I posted in order to share my experience as a newbie with the Oxiclean method. Even if I have to bleach seeds before planting, it still seems to me a whole lot less bother than fermenting.
JMHO and YMMV.

[Fusion_power]

Huntsman = Prince Charles favorite variety of cheese.