Trouble in Paradise

In the Garden · February 27, 2012

I have been growing tomatoes for years but since I moved to the subtropical zone 8 of SE Texas I have been struggling.

Last year I bought an Old Virginia heirloom from a locally run nursery to try it out. It did pretty well and I did not baby it so I decided to put Old Virginia to the test for real this year. I have started 14 from seed.

They germinated aggressively, all 14, and appeared to be super happy and strong. They now have their third set of leaves.

The second and third leaves are mottled with pale green, some of the leaves are slightly curled and some display a purple tint on the underside. Looks like a mineral deficiency. Not sure if the problem is nitrogen, calcium, or manganese... ?

Any thoughts?

I am going to test the ph today and make sure things are honky dory that way. I don't want to supplement the plants the wrong way and throw the whole project into a tail spin.

Do I need a fast acting "little bit of everything" supplement?

Over and Out,
In the Garden

tgplp · February 27, 2012

Hmm, does it look like any of these?

http://5e.plantphys.net/article.php?ch=t&id=289

Sometimes when my plants are looking wilty and off color I feed them a diluted solution of either liquid kelp or fish fertilizer. They perk up in a matter of hours!

Hope they get better! Good luck.
Taryn

In the Garden · February 28, 2012

Thanks for the response.

I gave all the plants "fish tea" last night but this morning my concern overtook me and the plants and I went on a field trip to a local nursery where an old retired horticulturist sets in the shade giving friendly advice for most of the season.

Sure enough he was there in his overalls looking like he wanted to be helpful. I approached him with the sick plants and he quickly diagnosed the problem as tobacco mosaic virus disease.

He asked me where I got the seeds and how old they were. The seeds were from a mail order heirloom seed co. (can't remember which one), and they were three years old.

He told me that the best thing to do would be to destroy the plants so as not to take any chances in spreading the virus.

The deed is done; the plants are gone.

tgplp · February 28, 2012

I'm sorry to hear that. At least you figured out what the disease was, and now you can start healthy seeds.

Taryn

ssi912 · February 28, 2012

what type of light were they recieving? where they growing inside? my plants do that when under floros or artificial light. it is just the plant preparing to shed the lower leaves because it is directing all of its energy to the leaves closest to the light. overwatering can cause it too. i doubt your plants had the disease. the purple was from cool soil, makes the plant unable to absorb phosphorus. organic ferts for seedlings are tricky. if growing in a soil less mix, organic ferts dont work well. order some plants from selected plants. i have in the past and they worked out great. if your growing in a potting mix, and not a potting soil, order a bottle of dynagro fertilizer. best fertilizer for soil less mix/ hydroponics i have ever used. good luck.

In the Garden · February 28, 2012

Wow--excellent advice! Thank you so much.

The plants are currently indoors under grow lights but I am beginning to harden them off tomorrow and will be moving them outdoors.

The thing with these particular plants was that even the new leaves were mottled with pale green and yellow. I have other tomato plants in the same growing medium, light, etc. which led me to believe that it was the plants.

I wonder if I just threw away a bunch of good tomatoes that were suffering from my inexperience. Bummer.

I need to consider the distance from the lights. I have always been told to keep the grow lights as close to the plants as possible, like an inch or two. Is that correct?

As far as cool soil...They are setting on a granite counter top which tends to stay a little cool and I am sure that affects the soil temp. I will remedy that tonight.

Thanks again!

ssi912 · February 28, 2012

i would guess overwatering. you need to get used to how the cups or pots your growing them in weigh when just watered. when they get lite as air time to water, if the plants are not wilted already, then water too. i bet it is just inexperience. i had the same problem when i first started. use at least two floro tubes. i use four until first true leaves. then they go under 400 watt metal halide. i use daylight bulbs in my floro fixture from lowes. i keep them an inch or two from the tops of plants. i am 99% sure your problem is overwatering and cool soil. if they have been inside the whole time, how would they have got infected? i doubt it was seed born, but possible. may need to contact seed source and ask if any other folks reporting problems. they will probably turn out to be great looking plants a couple weeks after planting out. organic is tricky, not the easiest thing to master. definently the best and cheapest way to go, once you figure it out. read all you can here and a ton of other sites about organics, rodales is a good book, vegetable gardeners bible is another. good luck.

dice · March 6, 2012

The purple on the bottoms of leaves is a phosphorus deficiency
symptom that usually results from seedlings in cold temperatures.
One usually does not see it indoors unless they are growing in a
medium with no plant nutrition in it and then not until they get
a few sets of leaves. A very modest dose of some fertilizer will
usually fix it. (I mix 1/4 worm castings into potting mix when potting
up sprouted seedlings into 3" pots, no nutrition problems. A pinch
of some kind of slow release fertilizer in a 3" pot will work, too. Last
resort, MG at 1/4 teaspoon per gallon of water not more often than
every 2 weeks.)

The mottling seems like a different problem than the purpling.
Maybe a disease, maybe not.

b54red · March 7, 2012

I'm sure your climate is much like mine in southeast Alabama. You will need to find varieties that can withstand the high heat and humidity and if you want to survive the diseases that ravage plants in our highly humid climate you will probably need to do some preventative spraying. Even doing all that our steamy climate can be a real challenge; but it can also produce some great tasting tomatoes.

Old Virginia is a very good tomato for this climate but there are others that are just as good and some that are better. My favorite heirloom is Indian Stripe and the most durable tomato for our climate that I have found is a hybrid called Big Beef. I have been fooled by a variety that will do well for one year and then never repeat that good performance again. Since you are new to dealing with the nearly tropical growing conditions I will list the tomatoes that have been successful for more than just a season or two. You will find a lot of blacks on the list because they tend to outperform during the hottest months but during a very wet season they don't do as well.

REDS and Pinks:
Lumpy Red
Old Virginia
Neves Azorian Red
Zogola
Andrew Rahart's Jumbo Red
Druzba
Eva Purple Ball
Big Beef (hybrid)
Brandy Boy (hybrid)
Stump of the World
Limbaugh's Legacy
Cowlick's Brandywine
Terhune
Fish Lake Oxheart
Linnie's Oxheart
Kosovo
Rose

BLACKS:
Indian Stripe
JDs Special C Tex
Cherokee Purple
Spudakee
Big Cheef
Black Krim
Dana's Dusky Rose
Gary O' Sena

GOLDS:
KBX
Dr. Wyches Yellow

GREENS:
Grubs Mystery Green

I hope this list will help you. I wish someone that had years of growing experience in this climate had given me such a list when I started growing tomatoes down here. Some years I grew only a few varieties that produced any fruit at all. I still have years with poor production but it isn't because of the varieties as much as my own lack of diligence when caring for the plants or one of our many diseases. I spent years trying a lot of new varieties and it was surprising how few were successful. From now on I will predominantly grow varieties that have shown some success down here and always a few new ones to see if I can find another gem.

February 27, 2012	#1
In the Garden Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Texas Posts: 5	Trouble in Paradise I have been growing tomatoes for years but since I moved to the subtropical zone 8 of SE Texas I have been struggling. Last year I bought an Old Virginia heirloom from a locally run nursery to try it out. It did pretty well and I did not baby it so I decided to put Old Virginia to the test for real this year. I have started 14 from seed. They germinated aggressively, all 14, and appeared to be super happy and strong. They now have their third set of leaves. The second and third leaves are mottled with pale green, some of the leaves are slightly curled and some display a purple tint on the underside. Looks like a mineral deficiency. Not sure if the problem is nitrogen, calcium, or manganese... ? Any thoughts? I am going to test the ph today and make sure things are honky dory that way. I don't want to supplement the plants the wrong way and throw the whole project into a tail spin. Do I need a fast acting "little bit of everything" supplement? Over and Out, In the Garden

March 6, 2012	#8
dice Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: PNW Posts: 4,743	The purple on the bottoms of leaves is a phosphorus deficiency symptom that usually results from seedlings in cold temperatures. One usually does not see it indoors unless they are growing in a medium with no plant nutrition in it and then not until they get a few sets of leaves. A very modest dose of some fertilizer will usually fix it. (I mix 1/4 worm castings into potting mix when potting up sprouted seedlings into 3" pots, no nutrition problems. A pinch of some kind of slow release fertilizer in a 3" pot will work, too. Last resort, MG at 1/4 teaspoon per gallon of water not more often than every 2 weeks.) The mottling seems like a different problem than the purpling. Maybe a disease, maybe not. __________________ -- alias

February 27, 2012	#2
tgplp Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Pacific North West, zone 8a Posts: 510	Hmm, does it look like any of these? http://5e.plantphys.net/article.php?ch=t&id=289 Sometimes when my plants are looking wilty and off color I feed them a diluted solution of either liquid kelp or fish fertilizer. They perk up in a matter of hours! Hope they get better! Good luck. Taryn

February 28, 2012	#3
In the Garden Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Texas Posts: 5	Thanks for the response. I gave all the plants "fish tea" last night but this morning my concern overtook me and the plants and I went on a field trip to a local nursery where an old retired horticulturist sets in the shade giving friendly advice for most of the season. Sure enough he was there in his overalls looking like he wanted to be helpful. I approached him with the sick plants and he quickly diagnosed the problem as tobacco mosaic virus disease. He asked me where I got the seeds and how old they were. The seeds were from a mail order heirloom seed co. (can't remember which one), and they were three years old. He told me that the best thing to do would be to destroy the plants so as not to take any chances in spreading the virus. The deed is done; the plants are gone.

February 28, 2012	#5
ssi912 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: May 2009 Location: St. Simons Island, Ga. Posts: 83	what type of light were they recieving? where they growing inside? my plants do that when under floros or artificial light. it is just the plant preparing to shed the lower leaves because it is directing all of its energy to the leaves closest to the light. overwatering can cause it too. i doubt your plants had the disease. the purple was from cool soil, makes the plant unable to absorb phosphorus. organic ferts for seedlings are tricky. if growing in a soil less mix, organic ferts dont work well. order some plants from selected plants. i have in the past and they worked out great. if your growing in a potting mix, and not a potting soil, order a bottle of dynagro fertilizer. best fertilizer for soil less mix/ hydroponics i have ever used. good luck.

March 7, 2012	#9
b54red Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Alabama Posts: 7,068	I'm sure your climate is much like mine in southeast Alabama. You will need to find varieties that can withstand the high heat and humidity and if you want to survive the diseases that ravage plants in our highly humid climate you will probably need to do some preventative spraying. Even doing all that our steamy climate can be a real challenge; but it can also produce some great tasting tomatoes. Old Virginia is a very good tomato for this climate but there are others that are just as good and some that are better. My favorite heirloom is Indian Stripe and the most durable tomato for our climate that I have found is a hybrid called Big Beef. I have been fooled by a variety that will do well for one year and then never repeat that good performance again. Since you are new to dealing with the nearly tropical growing conditions I will list the tomatoes that have been successful for more than just a season or two. You will find a lot of blacks on the list because they tend to outperform during the hottest months but during a very wet season they don't do as well. REDS and Pinks: Lumpy Red Old Virginia Neves Azorian Red Zogola Andrew Rahart's Jumbo Red Druzba Eva Purple Ball Big Beef (hybrid) Brandy Boy (hybrid) Stump of the World Limbaugh's Legacy Cowlick's Brandywine Terhune Fish Lake Oxheart Linnie's Oxheart Kosovo Rose BLACKS: Indian Stripe JDs Special C Tex Cherokee Purple Spudakee Big Cheef Black Krim Dana's Dusky Rose Gary O' Sena GOLDS: KBX Dr. Wyches Yellow GREENS: Grubs Mystery Green I hope this list will help you. I wish someone that had years of growing experience in this climate had given me such a list when I started growing tomatoes down here. Some years I grew only a few varieties that produced any fruit at all. I still have years with poor production but it isn't because of the varieties as much as my own lack of diligence when caring for the plants or one of our many diseases. I spent years trying a lot of new varieties and it was surprising how few were successful. From now on I will predominantly grow varieties that have shown some success down here and always a few new ones to see if I can find another gem.