I've really done it this time. . .damping off murder?

[hasshoes]

I haven't been watering the seedlings for almost a week because the soil looked moist. However, yesterday, some flopped over but continued to grow (the leaves were on the ground but curling up.) I saw somewhere (where I now can't find. . . maybe a dream??!!! ) that perhaps they needed more water, but this didn't work.

Today they were worse, so I was sure it was damping off. . . but after pulling one out there is no brown lesion. The roots were all white. . . I've included a photo. . . please help!!!! What do I do????!!!!

ps- there were about 10x more roots but they washed away when I was trying to get the dirt off. There is still a bit of brown dirt--- the brown you see is dirt, not a lesion. AHHHHH!!!!!!

[hasshoes]

They are in the basement with a dehumidifier, light, and fan. . .

[amideutch]

Hasshoes, What kind of "Dirt" are you growing them in? Ami

[hasshoes]

You see the flopping. . . also, I don't know if this is related but some of the leaves are oddly deformed or curling (last two photos). . .

Is this going to spread?

[hasshoes]

The dirt is a dirtless Jiffy seed starting mix. They were getting water from the bottom in the little kit, but have been without the bottom watering (or almost any watering) for a week now (until yesterday)

Thank you so much!
Heather

[carolyn137]

Heather, if it were damping off you'd see a brown lesion curcling the stem at the soil line and I see none at all. The roots don't have the lesions, it's the stem at the soil line.

What I see is just the result of lack of water, and whether they will survive or not I don't know. The curling leaves and all else are symptoms of dehydration.

[Ruth_10]

I don't think they look that bad. Doesn't look like damping off at all. Use the finger test to see if the mix is dry, or judge by weight, and water if necessary (do both the finger test and the weight test together a few times and after awhile you can judge watering needs by weight alone).

I have seen the bending over phenomenon a few times and it didn't seem to have much consequence one way or another. I think it might be a lighting issue--when the newly emerged seedlings don't get enough light soon enough and develop long stems at that early stage. When you pot them up, just bury the stems up to the cotyledons.

[hasshoes]

Could it be that they just had too much water initially and it never went away because of the humidity in my basement (I try to empty the dehumidifier everyday, but sometimes I forget) ? Could this be happening because they drowned/suffocated? Because the soil never got to the point of being dry-- at least on the top or very bottom. Some of the cells actually felt a bit muddy for awhile, that's why I put off watering for so long.

I should also maybe note that the seedlings with the really bad collapsing are on the end of my tray that has had hideous germination rate. . . and the seedlings that are deformed/super shrivelly are on the end that I had a more delayed germination. Both sides were the sides where the Jiffy starter was sucking up water (before I removed it,) so it would make sense if the ends got too much water, right?

If the plants are sick from drowning and not from being thirsty, is there anything to do? I'm still going to start over, but I'd like to save these guys if at all possible. They're my first ever tomato seedlings!!!!!

[dcarch]

could it be that you had your fan blowing too hard?

dcarch

[ddsack]

I agree with Ruth, I don't think they look that bad. It's normal for seedlings under lights to flop around a little when they are a bit stressed. They don't always look like perfect little soldiers. They'll look better when they get a little older and thicken up their stems. Your fan should be helping with that, and I would rotate the trays so that all seedlings get a chance at the best place under the lights and catching a breeze on alternate sides of the plant to even things out. The outer edges get leggy trying to lean in towards the center where the light is better. It may very well be that you stressed your seedlings by overwatering, and then letting them get too dry, but in the last photo, most of them look pretty normal to me. I know a lot of people like to bottom water, but I water small seedlings from a cup of water with a tablespoon so I can have a better notion of just how much water I'm giving them. And besides, it just feels more natural to me, like rain coming down through the top of the soil first.

Dee

[michael johnson]

The best way is to turn off the de-humidifier and turn on the fan to a gentle breeze (low) and keep the heat at about seventy F, water with a little seaweed liquid mix and they will soon straighten up, I think the de-humidifier is sucking all the moisture out of the air, the plants cant breath properly or photosynthesise properly.

[hasshoes]

70 Degrees?????!!!!!! Is there anything that I am doing right?!!!

Yesterday when I was worried that they were drowning, I decided that maybe if I turned the space heater on them it might dry out the soil a bit so they could breathe. I was shocked to see that the space heater said the temp was 63. . . I had no idea it was that cold in my basement, and I bet it got colder at night.

Sigh. . . MJ, can you recommend a seaweed mix? Also, should I be fertilizing? I haven't done that yet, I didn't think I needed to at one week?

I think I should add that I think the deformed seedlings were caused because I didn't pull off the seed and it stayed on forever (I'm just reading another post about this.) Soooo much to remember!!! I've done my studying, but who can remember it all?!!!

Thanks everyone for the help. . . it's a relief that they don't have a disease! I will keep everyone updated on the wounded's progress

Dee- how much of a tablespoon do you give each cell?

[montanamato]

I have had a flat of peppers do that in the past, when the heating pad was on high as I was hoping to germinate a few more, but didn't check for awhile....Water lukewarm in moderate amounts and left them in the dark, almost all recovered...

Jeanne

[amideutch]

Hasshoes, Check this out. They have several Kelp and algae supplements. Ami
http://www.tomatoville.com/showthread.php?t=4837

[ddsack]

Hasshoes,

I only use the tablespoon watering method while the seedlings are still very tiny, so as not to wash them out or knock them down from the force of the water. How much water varies by cell, depends on how dry they are, which I gauge by the color of the soil(less) mix, how far it's pulled away from the cell wall, sticking my finger in a little way, or by the weight of the cells (I grow in 4 cell packs). Often I end up adding about 2 tablespoons per each cell, but some get less and some get more. I go to using a plastic cup as soon as I can, because it is rather tedious spooning water!

Now relax, and don't worry so much! You will find lots of information and advice and some of it may at times be conflicting. We all have our various favorite ways of doing things, and most of them must work to some extent, or we wouldn't keep doing them. Or more likely, tomatoes are just hard to kill and they snicker at all the different ways we try to make things better for them, and will keep growing despite anything we do.