phytophtora early in the year

[Itoero]

I think because of the warm winter and spring , some people already have phytophtora on the tomatoes in their greenhouse.
What's the best way to get rid of phytophtora?
Does basalt meal really helps?
Or can you put cinnamon on the leaves and pine-needles on the ground? they are both anti-septic ...

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by Itoero

I think because of the warm winter and spring , some people already have phytophtora on the tomatoes in their greenhouse.
What's the best way to get rid of phytophtora?
Does basalt meal really helps?

\

There are several species of Phytophthora, one can cause root rot but I assume you mean P. infestans, which can cause Late Blight and can occur either early OR late in the season.

LB is considered to be lethal, it depends on how quickly it affects a plant and spreads within the plant , but I know of no complete cure .

Preventing it is the best thing to do and there's only one ant-fungal that has shown that it can help, at least available to home growers, and that's Daconil(chlorothalinol), the concentrated product which has about 29 % active ingredient and needs to be diluted before spraying.

I don't know if that's available in Belgium, I would think so but there must be some place near where you live that you can ask which products are best to use for preventing Late Blight

I dont know what basalt meal is, I've never heard of it.

Here's a general Google link with lots of links about the disease and ways to prevent it.

https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q...phthora+tomato

LB is spread by spores via wind and in raindrops, so if greenhouses are open for ventilation that's one way they can get inside.

And the disease is very common in Europe, just as it is here in several areas of the US /

Carolyn, who lives in a Late Blight area and near where potatoes are grown since LB also infects potatoes and that can be a source of spores to tomatoes, usually from potato cull ( discarded tubers )piles, not the growing plants although the latter can also be a source as well.

[frankcar1965]

Agri-fos/EXEL LG is labeled for LB and it is available and systemic too. Zero harvest interval.

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by frankcar1965

Agri-fos/EXEL LG is labeled for LB and it is available and systemic too. Zero harvest interval.

Maybe it's just me but I would never use any product that is systemic on anything I grow that's edible.

And no,I'm not a dedicated organic grower either.

Carolyn

[frankcar1965]

Carolyn, it is systemic in that it induces a defense reaction not a direct effect. If you do not eat organic then you have or will shortly be eating it, the farmers are beginning to use it. They have been using it in other places for a number of years. It is not a PAN bad actor on pesticideinfo.org and seems to me from what I can understand, less toxic than chlorothalinol. It is a new world now and there are much less toxic treatments out there, a lot of R&D has been taking place due to the move to organics that everyone is demanding. Quite a few formulations of daconil have a warning label while EXEL has a caution label. That's good enough for me.

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by frankcar1965

Carolyn, it is systemic in that it induces a defense reaction not a direct effect. If you do not eat organic then you have or will shortly be eating it, the farmers are beginning to use it. They have been using it in other places for a number of years. It is not a PAN bad actor on pesticideinfo.org and seems to me from what I can understand, less toxic than chlorothalinol. It is a new world now and there are much less toxic treatments out there, a lot of R&D has been taking place due to the move to organics that everyone is demanding. Quite a few formulations of daconil have a warning label while EXEL has a caution label. That's good enough for me.

I eat organic when organic products are available in my garden, and also locally at several stands.

And I'm quite up on organic growing and selling to the public.

Rotenone is labelled organic by every organic certifying agency I know of and has greater toxicity to the environment than does Daconil ( yes, there are different formulations, I'm referring to the common 26.9 active ingredient one used by home growers ). Not all organic products are great and not all synthetic products are great either, in terms of toxicity to humans, pets, the environment and more

Not "everyone" is demanding organically raised crops OR beef, that I also know.

Let me share with you a bit about where I live and what has happened to many of the organic growers. Here where I am farms are certified organic by NOFA, a major organic certifying agency in a large area of NY and adjacent states.

First, I think we all know that organically certified farmers are required to use organically raised seed, if that seed is available, if not, they can use conventional seed.

It's always bothered me a bit about the seed requirements since it's not organic seed, IMO, that's important, it's HOW one grows this or that organically that's important. But I do understand that some folks philosophies on organic gardening go beyond that and are more tied up with political concerns.

I know several organic farmers here and here's what's happened to them. They were certified by NOFA and then NOFA demanded that they could use no products that did not specify inert ingredients on the label. They then lost the ability to use many organic products that they used to use that were effective, somewhat, for common foliage diseases, which are most prominent in my area.

With the ensuing crop loss two of them went out of business.

The organic beef stituation is even worse since there are four USDA categories of organicness and it's not always clear which category refers to them.

Prices for organic products have gone up considerably and there's now resistance as to how much folks will pay for organic food. And obviously demand has also gone down.

I can only speak to the situation here where I live where organic vegetables and fruits, and organic beef and lamb and birdies have been are are still being sold.

Three local places truck their organic products to the Green Market in NYC where increased prices aren't so much of a problem there as opposed to other places in NYS. And it's a 5 hour trip one way to NYC for those folks.

Where I live there are many farmer's markets throughout the week, and many places where crops and milk and cheese are sold, and demand is lessening simply b'c of the COST of getting certified as well as a decrease in demand b'c of high prices.

There are organic sections in our large grocery stores, such as Price Chopper and Hannaford, and it's easy to see the differential for organic and non organic products.

Summary?

I can't see where "everyone" will be "demanding" organic produce, as you wrote, for the reasons given above.

Carolyn, who really does apologize for addressing organic issues here when there is forum here for such discussions, but she feels so strongly about some of the issues that she felt she had to answer you.

[frankcar1965]

Carolyn, I'm really not arguing with you, I'm not organic either, but have to disagree about people wanting organic, they are wanting it or it would not be available, the market determines that. I know in the Dallas-Ft Worth area where I have relatives there definitely is a big demand for it. Not so here in Redneck land where there is a large amount of poverty. I don't trust my local supermarket's organic produce, I think it is conventional that they put an organic sign on and sell at a higher price. Remember where you live is just a small corner compared to the rest of the country, the NW is really into organics I see. I still say there will be a growth in organics, perhaps not where you live where it has tapped out it seems, but other places yes. Didn't mean to touch a nerve and start a semi-tirade.

[feldon30]

Originally Posted by frankcar1965

Agri-fos/EXEL LG is labeled for LB and it is available and systemic too. Zero harvest interval.

Originally Posted by carolyn137

Maybe it's just me but I would never use any product that is systemic on anything I grow that's edible.

And no,I'm not a dedicated organic grower either.

Carolyn

Originally Posted by carolyn137

And I'm quite up on organic growing and selling to the public.

Originally Posted by carolyn137

Carolyn, who really does apologize for addressing organic issues here when there is forum here for such discussions, but she feels so strongly about some of the issues that she felt she had to answer you.

Exel LG is OMRI certified organic.

Daconil (chlorothalonil) is not and has been linked to respiratory illness when widely used without proper breathing apparatus (not necessarily an issue for the home gardener, but still worth mentioning).

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by frankcar1965

Carolyn, I'm really not arguing with you, I'm not organic either, but have to disagree about people wanting organic, they are wanting it or it would not be available, the market determines that. I know in the Dallas-Ft Worth area where I have relatives there definitely is a big demand for it. Not so here in Redneck land where there is a large amount of poverty. I don't trust my local supermarket's organic produce, I think it is conventional that they put an organic sign on and sell at a higher price. Remember where you live is just a small corner compared to the rest of the country, the NW is really into organics I see. I still say there will be a growth in organics, perhaps not where you live where it has tapped out it seems, but other places yes. Didn't mean to touch a nerve and start a semi-tirade.

We aren't arguing, we've been discussing this issue/

I read at several message sites and post at some, and my viewpoint has been expressed at some other message sites as well, especially ones in CA and MO/

I think most of the problem is related to the still troublesome economic situation, which is true for many, to justify paying more for organic food

In the larger cities such as NYCity as I mentioned, and Dallas as you mentioned, it seems not to be that much of a problem for many folks to come up with the money.

So IMO it's not always true that when there is a demand a product will appear, since that product needs to be priced appropriately, and that is also related to the specific geographic localities being considered.

Carolyn

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by feldon30

Exel LG is OMRI certified organic.

Daconil (chlorothalonil) is not and has been linked to respiratory illness when widely used without proper breathing apparatus (not necessarily an issue for the home gardener, but still worth mentioning).

Morgan, you posted right before me and as I was doing my post, so I didn't see it.

No Daconil is not organic, it's synthetic as I mentioed above,

And no I didn't discuss the pros and cons of Daconil either, since I assummed that there were threads about it in the Organic Forum here,

But the best place to scientific get facts about any gardening or farming product is EXTOXNET, so I'll link to a general Google search for that cooperative and folks can check out any product they want to o and using the Pips is the best way to go.

http://extoxnet.orst.edu/

http://extoxnet.orst.edu/pips/chloroth.htm

Daconil is the most widely used anti fungal in the world and has been so for many decades, so lots of experience with this product, which is made in different formulations. My farmer friend Charlie always used Bravo, several formulations of that as well, and many formulations for golf club lawns as well,

When I talk about Daconil I'm talking about the 29.6 % concentrated product that the public can buy and dilute, most other formulations needing a pesticide license to buy.

In the past I would get frustrated with the conserative organic folks and websites for saying that anything not organic was bad, but I no longer do that b'c each person has to weigh the pros and cons of any product as to toxicity, efficacy, price and ease of using the product.

Carolyn

[RayR]

Originally Posted by feldon30

Exel LG is OMRI certified organic.

Phosphorous acid formulations are not OMRI listed.
Organocide Plant Doctor (formerly Excel LG) is Mono and Di-Potassium salts of phosphorous acid, synthetically made molecules.

[Andrey_BY]

Unfortunately Daconil (Chlorothalinol) is very rare used here in CIS.
It is distributed by Syngenta distributors under the name Bravo 500 and available mostly for farmers and professional growers.

[Itoero]

Basalt meal is volcanic rockdust with +/- 50% silicic-acid.
Silicic acid has fungicidal properties and should help prevent phytophtora.
Do you think this can work?

[RayR]

Originally Posted by Itoero

Basalt meal is volcanic rockdust with +/- 50% silicic-acid.
Silicic acid has fungicidal properties and should help prevent phytophtora.
Do you think this can work?

Where did you hear about this? I know silica minerals will react with water to form silicic acid, but the process is extremely slow especially with crystalline silica like quartz which is what is in a volcanic rock like basalt.
Silicon is the second most abundant element on earth and most natural soils contain sufficient amounts of silicate minerals and the small amounts of silicic acid dissolved in the soil water that different types of plants will utilize to various degrees.
Soilless growing mediums are a different story since they generally are lacking in most minerals unless they were added as a component of the mix.
I know basalt dust is used in soil remineraliztion but it seems to me that if you want more silicic acid for strengthening plant cell walls and its fungicidal effects I think there are other inputs that can supply silicic acid much faster.

[Itoero]

That makes sence..
Do you know of another silicic acid input?