Blossom End Rot in Earthtainer

mschrock · February 22, 2011

I've been using my earthtainers for the past two years. Both years I've had severe problems with blossom end rot. I used pro-mix potting mix, two cups lime in the top, and two bands of fertilizer. The first year I had issues with consistent watering, so I associated the BER with that. I corrected the watering issues last year, and the BER was just as bad, if not worse. I added more lime last year before planting.

I spent the day reading on the 'net about BER in containers, and now I'm wondering if it has something to do with the containers getting too warm.

I really like my earthtainers, but I really don't want to loose 3/4 of the upcoming crop again for the third year. Last year I had fabulous success with zucchini and peppers in them. Most people seem to have good success with tomatoes. Any tips or info would be greatly appreciated!

Marlin

rnewste · February 22, 2011

Marlin,

Can you tell us what type and brand of Lime did you use? Also, what Varieties had the most BER?

I also see some BER mostly earlier in the Season. Then, most of it seems to disappear later in the growing Season.

Also, please tell us about the Combo Mix that you are using.

Raybo

panhandler · February 22, 2011

I like the Soil Doctor Pulverized Lime. It's $3-4 for a 40 lb. bag at Lowe's or Home Depot. I put it in a couple to several weeks before transplant time. I use a lot of peat and pine bark fines in 15-20 gal. containers and amend w/ a cup or two of the pulverized, not pelletized dolomitic lime. The pelletized form takes too long to break down for me. It also counters the peat and pine pH.

I think pulverized dolomite as well as magnesium sulfate are effective amendments/fertilizers to help prevent BER. Of course, BER could be caused by watering/irrigation issues, plant to root imbalances, etc.

Get pulverized.

mschrock · February 22, 2011

The bag says:
Garden Lime
Ground Dolomitic Limestone
Austinville Limestone Co.

Calcium: 20%
Magnesium 11.5%
Calcium Oxide 19.1%
Magnesium Carbonate 50%
Total Carbonates 90%
Calcium Carbonate Equiv CCE 97.6%

Earlier fruit had BER:
Big Beef
Kotlas
Brandywine

90% fruit had BER:
Viva Italia
Opalka

So, looking back I now realize it was mostly the paste tomatoes that were serious duds.

As for the potting mix:

three with Miracle grow potting mix without moisture control.
three with promix i dont remember the number. Maybe 2?

mschrock · February 22, 2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by panhandler

Of course, BER could be caused by watering/irrigation issues, plant to root imbalances, etc.

Year one: the containers were on unlevel ground and water storage capacity was compromised. I returned from work on several occasions to wilted plants. So the first year I chalked it up to that. Also used city water.

Year two: I built a wood platform that held each container level. That solved issues with water consistency. I also converted to using caught rainwater.

rnewste · February 22, 2011

I would follow panhandler's recommendation re: using Pulverized Lime such as Soil Doctor. I would also place the 2 cups of it down in the middle of the 'Tainer, and not near the surface.

I have heard that paste tomatoes are more prone to BER.

Also, I would recommend that you use a 4:1 ratio of the Miracle-Gro Potting Mix along with Perlite, as a minimum. If you want to go the extra mile, use the 3:2:1 Potting Mix, Decorative Groundcover Bark, Perlite Combo Mix.

None of this will guarantee freedom from BER, but it should minimize it to an acceptable level. Also, I will be experimenting with Epsom Salt as an additive in a diluted soil drench this Season.

Raybo

les matzek · February 22, 2011

hi mschrock,
maybe the lime has not broke down enought fot the plants to use, since i have been useing aggrand liquid lime it is rare for me to get bet it might
well work for you ??,it can be bought at www.aggrand.com good luck
les
ls

panhandler · February 22, 2011

Last year I got frustrated with some BER in conventional containers. I think it was mostly because of extreme weather/watering issues. Within a matter of a week or two I didn't have any more substantial problems with it. Sometimes young plants in containers seem to have too much vegetation in relation to root mass and I think that can lead to BER too. Like an awkward puberty phase when it fruits too fast and breaks out with BER. As it flowers and fruits more, it can outgrow the growing pain so to speak. I know that's not very scientific or technical but I truly believe it.

Try epsom salts (magnesium sulfate) or sul-po-mag. Throw a plethora of trace elements at the plant. It can't hurt. Trace elements earlier= happier plant.

mschrock · February 22, 2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by rnewste

Also, please tell us about the Combo Mix that you are using.

I have four containers that have Miracle Grow potting mix (non moisture control) from lowes.

I have three containers with Sun Gro Sunshine #2 mix.

Thinking about amending the containers with bark and perlite...

Marlin

mschrock · February 22, 2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by panhandler

Try epsom salts (magnesium sulfate) or sul-po-mag. Throw a plethora of trace elements at the plant. It can't hurt. Trace elements earlier= happier plant.

Thanks for the info. I wanted to make sure I'm not doing something wrong.

Are paste varieties more susceptible to ber?

panhandler · February 22, 2011

Just don't overdo any epsom salt. It's just my opinion. Some would say it isn't necessary or the magnesium can interfere with the plant's calcium uptake. I say a little here and there can't do much damage. I would dilute the epsom with periodic waterings if you want to try it out.

I don't know if paste varieties are necessarily more prone to BER. I wish I knew. All I know is some varieties have a genetic propensity for it, some (esp. some hybrids) are even pretty much resistant to it. It would be nice to have a long list of the most BER prone varieties.

rwsacto · February 23, 2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by mschrock

I've been using my earthtainers for the past two years. Both years I've had severe problems with blossom end rot. I used pro-mix potting mix, two cups lime in the top, and two bands of fertilizer. . .

Marlin

I notice you say you put the lime on the top. I mix the lime throughout the media.

I had some BER early and some late season in full size tomatoes. I attributed to changing weather and watering.

What say others?

Rick

Dewayne mater · February 23, 2011

"I spent the day reading on the 'net about BER in containers, and now I'm wondering if it has something to do with the containers getting too warm. "

I do believe temperature can be a player here. There is a thread I was on last season where we discussed a BER problem I had. My tainers were both on concrete and getting full direct sun. BER was a big problem. Then, I, with the help of Ray and others, attacked it by 3 means: one, I sat the tainers up on two by fours to get them off the hot concrete and get air underneath them;two, I used bamboo shades to keep the direct sun off the tainers; three, I added a calcium liquid fertilizer product to the watering regimen. Some or all of this worked and I experienced no more BER, even though the temps were high.

I'm going to build some ETIIIs this year, and they are double walled, with an air space, so they may work to stop excessive heat build up be better design. We shall see.

FILMNET · February 23, 2011

Compost instead of so much peat, I am using less peat now in my garden or pots, last years, of these , Paul Rosborn, Roma, Smarty F1, Mountain Magic, Jaune Flamme. By the end of summer only BER on Romas, by the pots were stuff.

dice · February 23, 2011

Calcium taken in by the roots goes to new leaves and stems
first, fruit second. If you have a fast growing plant in a rich,
high-nitrogen soil (or container mix), the new vegetation that
the plant is producing can starve the fruit for calcium.

I mix dolomite (in new container mix) and gypsum both
thoughout the container mix, and I treat plants showing
BER problems with a liquid calcium product, too (Fertall
Liquid Calcium). In container mix that I am reusing, I check
the pH in spring before adding any more dolomite.

I last bought Fertall Liquid Calcium from groworganic.com,
and Google does not show any other online vendors for it,
but groworganic.com's online catalog is showing it as
not found in the catalog. In areas with farm and feed stores
and the like, one may be able to get it in gallon or 2.5 gallon
jugs from an agricultural supplier. (Fertall does a lot of bulk
business in agricultural supply markets.)

It is also sometimes called Fertall Calcium 12%.

Alternatives might be Nutri-cal, calcium chloride, and a few
other liquid calcium products sold by agricultural or hydroponic
outlets. Down To Earth has one, too:
http://www.downtoearthfertilizer.com/liq_calcium.html
I do not see it in the online fertilizer supply chain, only the
manufacturer's page and blog mentions of it and so on,
so I have no idea what it costs.

February 22, 2011	#1
mschrock Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: VA Posts: 5	Blossom End Rot in Earthtainer I've been using my earthtainers for the past two years. Both years I've had severe problems with blossom end rot. I used pro-mix potting mix, two cups lime in the top, and two bands of fertilizer. The first year I had issues with consistent watering, so I associated the BER with that. I corrected the watering issues last year, and the BER was just as bad, if not worse. I added more lime last year before planting. I spent the day reading on the 'net about BER in containers, and now I'm wondering if it has something to do with the containers getting too warm. I really like my earthtainers, but I really don't want to loose 3/4 of the upcoming crop again for the third year. Last year I had fabulous success with zucchini and peppers in them. Most people seem to have good success with tomatoes. Any tips or info would be greatly appreciated! Marlin Last edited by mschrock; February 22, 2011 at 08:45 PM. Reason: spelling

February 22, 2011	#4
mschrock Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: VA Posts: 5	The bag says: Garden Lime Ground Dolomitic Limestone Austinville Limestone Co. Calcium: 20% Magnesium 11.5% Calcium Oxide 19.1% Magnesium Carbonate 50% Total Carbonates 90% Calcium Carbonate Equiv CCE 97.6% Earlier fruit had BER: Big Beef Kotlas Brandywine 90% fruit had BER: Viva Italia Opalka So, looking back I now realize it was mostly the paste tomatoes that were serious duds. As for the potting mix: three with Miracle grow potting mix without moisture control. three with promix i dont remember the number. Maybe 2? Last edited by mschrock; February 22, 2011 at 09:25 PM. Reason: expanding on potting mix

February 23, 2011	#15
dice Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: PNW Posts: 4,743	Calcium taken in by the roots goes to new leaves and stems first, fruit second. If you have a fast growing plant in a rich, high-nitrogen soil (or container mix), the new vegetation that the plant is producing can starve the fruit for calcium. I mix dolomite (in new container mix) and gypsum both thoughout the container mix, and I treat plants showing BER problems with a liquid calcium product, too (Fertall Liquid Calcium). In container mix that I am reusing, I check the pH in spring before adding any more dolomite. I last bought Fertall Liquid Calcium from groworganic.com, and Google does not show any other online vendors for it, but groworganic.com's online catalog is showing it as not found in the catalog. In areas with farm and feed stores and the like, one may be able to get it in gallon or 2.5 gallon jugs from an agricultural supplier. (Fertall does a lot of bulk business in agricultural supply markets.) It is also sometimes called Fertall Calcium 12%. Alternatives might be Nutri-cal, calcium chloride, and a few other liquid calcium products sold by agricultural or hydroponic outlets. Down To Earth has one, too: http://www.downtoearthfertilizer.com/liq_calcium.html I do not see it in the online fertilizer supply chain, only the manufacturer's page and blog mentions of it and so on, so I have no idea what it costs. __________________ -- alias

February 22, 2011	#2
rnewste Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Campbell, CA Posts: 4,064	Marlin, Can you tell us what type and brand of Lime did you use? Also, what Varieties had the most BER? I also see some BER mostly earlier in the Season. Then, most of it seems to disappear later in the growing Season. Also, please tell us about the Combo Mix that you are using. Raybo Last edited by rnewste; February 22, 2011 at 09:21 PM.

February 22, 2011	#3
panhandler Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Northwest Florida Posts: 49	I like the Soil Doctor Pulverized Lime. It's $3-4 for a 40 lb. bag at Lowe's or Home Depot. I put it in a couple to several weeks before transplant time. I use a lot of peat and pine bark fines in 15-20 gal. containers and amend w/ a cup or two of the pulverized, not pelletized dolomitic lime. The pelletized form takes too long to break down for me. It also counters the peat and pine pH. I think pulverized dolomite as well as magnesium sulfate are effective amendments/fertilizers to help prevent BER. Of course, BER could be caused by watering/irrigation issues, plant to root imbalances, etc. Get pulverized.

February 22, 2011	#7
les matzek Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Landers, CA Posts: 191	hi mschrock, maybe the lime has not broke down enought fot the plants to use, since i have been useing aggrand liquid lime it is rare for me to get bet it might well work for you ??,it can be bought at www.aggrand.com good luck les ls

February 23, 2011	#13
Dewayne mater Tomatovillian™ Join Date: May 2008 Location: DFW, Texas Posts: 1,212	"I spent the day reading on the 'net about BER in containers, and now I'm wondering if it has something to do with the containers getting too warm. " I do believe temperature can be a player here. There is a thread I was on last season where we discussed a BER problem I had. My tainers were both on concrete and getting full direct sun. BER was a big problem. Then, I, with the help of Ray and others, attacked it by 3 means: one, I sat the tainers up on two by fours to get them off the hot concrete and get air underneath them;two, I used bamboo shades to keep the direct sun off the tainers; three, I added a calcium liquid fertilizer product to the watering regimen. Some or all of this worked and I experienced no more BER, even though the temps were high. I'm going to build some ETIIIs this year, and they are double walled, with an air space, so they may work to stop excessive heat build up be better design. We shall see.

February 23, 2011	#14
FILMNET Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: North Charleston,South Carolina, USA Posts: 1,803	Compost instead of so much peat, I am using less peat now in my garden or pots, last years, of these , Paul Rosborn, Roma, Smarty F1, Mountain Magic, Jaune Flamme. By the end of summer only BER on Romas, by the pots were stuff.