OP replacement for Merced; new member

dhrtx · February 9, 2009

Hello to all! I was very excited to find this site. Very interesting conversations.

I am on a mission to help a lady I know with a replacement for the hybrid Merced. She mentioned that it was the best tomato she had grown, yet she has not been able to find it anywhere. When I looked, I found that it is no longer produced.

I hope to find an heirloom that is as good or better, but do not really know what Merced is like. It seems to have thrived here in Texas and I think it set well in heat.

I am trying several varieties that I hope might work:
Arkansas Traveler
Creole
Marglobe Supreme
Homestead
Manalucie

Any info on Merced and these varieties would be great, along with any suggestions to try next year.

Deer Park · February 9, 2009

dhrtx,

Have her contact me and we can do a trade. I can let her have a couple of Merced seeds from my safe.

Or you can have her grow Amelia from Willhite seeds.

Michael

dhrtx · February 9, 2009

Micheal, thanks for the reply. Amelia is one I will definitely look into. I would love to trade for a couple of those seeds, but do not have much more than those mentioned, a few Porter and Kellogg's Breakfast.

**Tom Wagner** · February 10, 2009

Oh No! The Merced Hybrid is no longer available!

First, some information about Merced tomatoes.

A picture of Merced tomato fruits:
http://plantanswers.tamu.edu/vegetab...ls/merced2.jpg
Same site but shows the flavor, yield, etc components:
http://plantanswers.tamu.edu/vegetab...als/index.html

Quote:

Merced is an excellent early yielding variety. Determinate vines yield a large initial crop of firm, flavorful, oblate fruit

Quote:

Information from Florida indicates that Merced may have tolerance to the conditions that predispose tomatoes to gray wall. Tobacco mosaic virus is also reported to be involved in gray wall. In those cases the disorder is also called internal browning. That tobacco mosaic virus is involved in a disorder called internal browning is not in dispute. What is in dispute is whether the two disorders are the same or separate. In a few other cases certain bacteria and fungi are thought to also be implicated. Another confusion is that gray wall is also sometimes called blotchy ripening!

Hat tip to: http://tinyurl.com/d88byb

Quote:

“This year I planted 2 of my remaining Merced seed. Merced is (or was) a great tomato for here but no one sells the seed any more”

HoustonVegetableGarden.com ..a quote from Robert Hermes and his blog shows how rare the hybrid Merced seed is getting to be.

Quote:

One hundred percent of the FL tomato acreage is planted with varieties resistant to Fusarium and Verticillium wilt, gray leaf spot and early blight (Davis et al. 1998). Large fruited varieties recommended for Florida include 'Agriset 761', 'Bonita', 'Merced', 'Olympic', 'Solar Set', 'Sunbeam' and 'Sunny'

see… http://tinyurl.com/cbz49u

tomatoai.html tomatojr.html tomatosz.html
Great links to tomato varieties as to when they were released and what they were similar to.

Quote:

Merced (NVH 4461) - Breeder and vendor: Northrup King. Characteristics: extremely smooth, large, deep globe shaped fruit, typically has smooth blossom end and shoulders, fruit stems are jointed. Resistance: verticillium wilt race 1, fusarium wilt races 1 and 2, tobacco mosaic virus, gray leaf spot. Similar: Sunny, Jackpot. 1991

The art of comparing similar lines to a variety often ties some genetic similarity as well. If Merced is similar to the hybrids Jackpot and Sunny, what are they similar to? Are any of them OP? Not likely.

Quote:

Jackpot (Expt. Market Hybrid no. 9) - Breeder and vendor: Ferry-Morse Seed Co. Characteristics: F1 hybrid, very early, high yield, smooth fruit. Resistance: verticillium wilt, fusarium wilt races 1 and 2, nematodes, alternaria stem canker, and gray leaf spot. Similar: Royal Flush. Adaptation: California and Florida. 1976.

Quote:

Sunny (XPH674) - Breeder and vendor: Asgrow Seed Co. Characteristics: F1 hybrid, fresh-market and shipper type with attractive medium large to large fruit. Resistance: fusarium (race 1 and 2); tolerant of verticillium. Similar: Tempo. 1980.

Quote:

Tempo (XP2032 A) - Breeder and vendor: Asgrow Seed Co. Characteristics: F1 hybrid, local market and shipping; primarily for mature green and pink production; suitable either for stake or ground culture. Resistance: fusarium race 1 and 2, grey leaf spot, and alternaria. Similar: Floradade. Adaptation: wide. 1978.

Quote:

Royal Flush (Hybrid no. 1) - Breeder and vendor: Ferry-Morse Seed Co. Parentage: Ferry-Morse inbreds. Characteristics: F1 hybrid, early, market type, high yield, compact vine, concentrated ripening, large, firm, smooth, uniform fruit with excellent flavor, light-green shoulder, excellent for shipping. Resistance: verticillium and fusarium wilts and nematodes. Similar: Unique. Adaptation: California and the midwestern and southern United States. 1974.

Quote:

Flavormore 215 (FMX 215) - Breeder and vendor: Ferry-Morse. Characteristics: early extended shelf life market hybrid that ripens well when picked green and gassed, medium to large size, smooth and attractive, green-ripe fruit are firm and smooth on the shoulders and blossom ends, stems easily, ripens uniformly. Resistance: verticillium wilt race 1, fusarium wilt races 1 and 2. Similar: Merced, Sunbelt, Shady Lady, Sunny. 1995

Note how Merced is similar to Sunbelt, Shady Lady, Sunny and Flavormore 215. One would have to go back to Floradade to find an OP that is likely in the pedigree. The unwritten assumption is that perhaps one parent of each of these varieties has some historical or pedigree background. Since all of these varieties were in the heyday during the mid 90’s, it is not surprising that the baton has been passed to yet another generation of hybrids. Most hybrids don’t last more than 15 years, however hybrid Merced lasted a bit longer than that. I could see the popularity of Merced drop off with California growers just after 5 years of widespread production. Reason given? Too soft! It was used for a while as a first early before the season became too hot.

As a private tomato breeder, I did not always have access to the inbreds to many tomato hybrids due to proprietary factors. During the 90’s especially, I would grow some hybrids-save seed-sow again, and carry out the segregating families until I found some fairly true breeding lines that I liked. I did this with Merced, Shady Lady, SunJay, Cobia, SunBelt, Olympic, and hundreds of other hybrids. Once the selfing became useful parents, I would cross them (F-5) etc., to get new hybrid combinations. I would often find that an F-5 Merced crossed to an F-5 Cobia, for example, would be better than either of the original hybrids. Most often I tried to have several segregating families of a Merced and others to make sure I had the right mix of genetics for both an OP line and a hybrid. Many times I would cross stable lines of many commercial hybrids with my heirloom material to get new combinations to self out.

So in my inventory of many seed lines, I may have dozens of preferred stocks of say, Merced and others to keep viable for the future. I plan to cross one of my best Merced OP lines with my best Bingo OP lines to get a hybrid that will mimic the 5.9 flavor and half pound fruits that either hybrid made years ago.

I have an heirloom type of my creations that has an OP Merced in its’ pedigree. I think I will cross the stable line of that new heirloom back to the OP Merced just to maintain the largest amount of Merced type in an heirloom accrual.

I have been saving seed from hybrids for over 55 years. I could not tell you how many lines that are stable in my collections. It may be worth something due to the fact of many hybrids being dropped each year. I would bet some folks would be obsessed to get some of these lines that number in the hundreds upon hundreds.

Tom Wagner

dhrtx · February 10, 2009

Wow, thanks for that info. I imagine a stable line from Merced would be attractive to many. Where do I sign up?

Drew

**Tom Wagner** · February 10, 2009

Drew,

The nature of my research has had irrational transcendentals of diametrical opposites that produce tomato varieties that appear to me as opportunities that are in and of themselves components for further study. Therefore much of my work creating or recreating varieties is a work in progress.

The open pollinated Merceds that I have in my possession are for future discovery, hereby forming the nucleus for further hybrids and potential public or private release. Since little of my work is readily available or even acknowledged, I will be attempting to address what to do with my collections through a series of work shops this year.

Many of the inbreds that I have inventoried are rather extrinsic models of inherent non-essentials of tomato lines, however when the time comes to template my materials through some sort of collation, there may, in fact, be some rather shocking intrinsic germplasm evolving.

Sometimes plain English explains things, but using a few lofty phrases will allow me to re-simplify with my inner self of translation.com.

Hope that clears up any confusion!

Tom Wagner

wheelterrapin · February 12, 2009

Michael I to am desperately trying to find a source for the Merced Seeds. I live in Central Arkansas and was recently told by a visitor from Texas that the Merced is one of the best tomatoes to grow. However, like everyone else I have discovered they are discontinued. I just wanted to try a couple of them this year in my small backyard garden.

Is the Amelia Tomato a replacement for the Merced or one that has just some of the same characteristics? It gets mighty hot here in Central Arkansas during the summer.

Thanks for the help.

Paul

travis · February 12, 2009

Give Bonnie Plant Farms a call on their 1-800 line and ask them if they intend to distribute any Merced transplants this year. They did in 2007, after Merced seeds were discontinued. Apparently, Bonnie Plant Farms has a stash of seeds.

However, I didn't see any in Arkansas, but saw a few in Austin at big box stores in 2007. Didn't notice any in 2008, but then they may have sold them all before I got to looking around.

I saved some F2 seeds, but haven't tried them out yet.

With regard to Amelia, I didn't notice that it was all that much like Merced in that Merced makes very heavy walled fruit with smaller seed cells. Also, Merced seemed to be just a tad elongated globe rather than a flattened globe. But that may have been weather related to that year.

And yes, Amelia will hold up in the heat. So will Bella Rosa, Top Gun, Mountain Glory, and a few other TSWV types that will give you large red globes whether flattened or more globe shaped longitudinally.

Edit: Sorry, Bonnie apparently no longer publishes their 1-800 on the website. Here is the contact page.
www.bonnieplants.com/ContactUs/tabid/153/Default.aspx Try emailing them for a response about possible Merced transplants in 2009.

creister · February 12, 2009

I saw Merced transplants from Bonnie last spring 2008 at Lowe's. I thought they were rather pricey. Sioux is a very good tasting red that does well for me here.

**Tom Wagner** · February 12, 2009

Bonnie Varieties
2009

Ace 55 VFA Large, deep-red fruit with low acid content.

Amelia VF123NStSW Resists many diseases.

Arkansas Traveler Delicious, pink, Southern heirloom. Produces in heat.

Atkinson FN Popular Southern variety since 1966.

Beefmaster VFN Large, indeterminate beefsteak hybrid tomato.

Better Boy VFN This classic produces high yields and tastes great!

Better Bush VFN Bushy plants great for containers.

BHN 444 (Southern Star) For hot climates. Resists spotted wilt virus.

BHN 640 VFFSt SW This highly resistant tomato is great for hot, humid climates.

Big Beef VFFNA Disease resistant and great tasting.

Big Boy One of America's most popular tomatoes.

Bonnie Original VFN Wonderful flavor, abundant producer.

Bonnie Select VFFNTA The best determinate tomato available.

Bradley FA Mild-tasting fruit with smooth skin.

Bush Early Girl VFFNT Great for compact places and produces heavy yields.

Bush Goliath VFN Big, sweet tomatoes on a little plant.

Celebrity VFFNT Delicious flavor. Everybody likes it.

Creole FA Large fruit perfect for warm, humid areas.

Early Cascade VF Named for clusters of fruit early in the season.
Early Girl VFF Matures very early. Great slicing tomato.

First Lady II VFNTASt Old-fashioned flavor.

German Queen Large, sweet fruit. Low in acidity.

Goliath VFFTASt Giant fruit that's disease resistant and delicious.

Health Kick VFFTAStSW Highest in antioxidants.

Heatwave VFFA Early producer of abundant fruit in hot climates.

Husky Cherry Red VF Great for small gardens and containers.

Jet Star VF Delicious and meaty with low acidity.

JS 2000 VFFNT Highly disease resistant and very tasty.

Juliet (Roma Grape) Delicious sweet, nibble-sized fruit. Outstanding production.

Lemon Boy VFNASt Tangy, sweet, mild and meaty. Perfect for slicing.

Marglobe Improved VF Flavorful. Adapted to many climates.

Marion FSt Large, meaty, and dark red Southern classic.

Mr. Stripey High in sugar. Very sweet. Great for slicing.

Park's Whopper Improved Cr™ VFFNT Disease resistant. High yield. Longer season.

Patio FASt Perfect for containers and small gardens!

Pink Brandywine Flavorful and tangy. A favorite heirloom.

Red Beefsteak FN Huge red tomatoes perfect for slicing.

Roma Grape (Juliet) Grape-type tomato that produces clusters of 10 to 18 sweet fruit.

Roma VF A paste tomato that's high in sugar, acid, and pectin.

Rutgers VFA Highly productive heirloom, large red fruits with superior flavor.

San Francisco Fog Tomato

Seattle’s Best of All Tomato Good tomato for cool Pacific Northwest.

Sunmaster VFFSt High yielding. Great for hot humid climates.

Sweet 100 VFN Super-sweet bite-sized tomatoes. Prolific.

Talladega VFFTSWSt For Southeast. Resists spotted wilt virus.

Yellow Cherry Great addition for salads or snacking.

Yellow Pear Tomato Very sweet. Bite-sized for salads and snacks.

I don't see the Merced anywhere on this copy paste.

February 9, 2009	#1
dhrtx Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Ranger, TX Posts: 49	OP replacement for Merced; new member Hello to all! I was very excited to find this site. Very interesting conversations. I am on a mission to help a lady I know with a replacement for the hybrid Merced. She mentioned that it was the best tomato she had grown, yet she has not been able to find it anywhere. When I looked, I found that it is no longer produced. I hope to find an heirloom that is as good or better, but do not really know what Merced is like. It seems to have thrived here in Texas and I think it set well in heat. I am trying several varieties that I hope might work: Arkansas Traveler Creole Marglobe Supreme Homestead Manalucie Any info on Merced and these varieties would be great, along with any suggestions to try next year.

February 12, 2009	#8
travis Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Evansville, IN Posts: 2,984	Give Bonnie Plant Farms a call on their 1-800 line and ask them if they intend to distribute any Merced transplants this year. They did in 2007, after Merced seeds were discontinued. Apparently, Bonnie Plant Farms has a stash of seeds. However, I didn't see any in Arkansas, but saw a few in Austin at big box stores in 2007. Didn't notice any in 2008, but then they may have sold them all before I got to looking around. I saved some F2 seeds, but haven't tried them out yet. With regard to Amelia, I didn't notice that it was all that much like Merced in that Merced makes very heavy walled fruit with smaller seed cells. Also, Merced seemed to be just a tad elongated globe rather than a flattened globe. But that may have been weather related to that year. And yes, Amelia will hold up in the heat. So will Bella Rosa, Top Gun, Mountain Glory, and a few other TSWV types that will give you large red globes whether flattened or more globe shaped longitudinally. Edit: Sorry, Bonnie apparently no longer publishes their 1-800 on the website. Here is the contact page. www.bonnieplants.com/ContactUs/tabid/153/Default.aspx Try emailing them for a response about possible Merced transplants in 2009. Last edited by travis; February 12, 2009 at 10:56 AM.

February 9, 2009	#2
Deer Park Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Pasadena, Texas Posts: 199	dhrtx, Have her contact me and we can do a trade. I can let her have a couple of Merced seeds from my safe. Or you can have her grow Amelia from Willhite seeds. Michael

February 10, 2009	#5
dhrtx Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Ranger, TX Posts: 49	Wow, thanks for that info. I imagine a stable line from Merced would be attractive to many. Where do I sign up? Drew

February 10, 2009	#6
Tom Wagner Crosstalk™ Forum Moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: 8407 18th Ave West 7-203 Everett, Washington 98204 Posts: 1,157	Drew, The nature of my research has had irrational transcendentals of diametrical opposites that produce tomato varieties that appear to me as opportunities that are in and of themselves components for further study. Therefore much of my work creating or recreating varieties is a work in progress. The open pollinated Merceds that I have in my possession are for future discovery, hereby forming the nucleus for further hybrids and potential public or private release. Since little of my work is readily available or even acknowledged, I will be attempting to address what to do with my collections through a series of work shops this year. Many of the inbreds that I have inventoried are rather extrinsic models of inherent non-essentials of tomato lines, however when the time comes to template my materials through some sort of collation, there may, in fact, be some rather shocking intrinsic germplasm evolving. Sometimes plain English explains things, but using a few lofty phrases will allow me to re-simplify with my inner self of translation.com. Hope that clears up any confusion! Tom Wagner

February 12, 2009	#7
wheelterrapin Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Searcy, Arkansas Posts: 13	Michael I to am desperately trying to find a source for the Merced Seeds. I live in Central Arkansas and was recently told by a visitor from Texas that the Merced is one of the best tomatoes to grow. However, like everyone else I have discovered they are discontinued. I just wanted to try a couple of them this year in my small backyard garden. Is the Amelia Tomato a replacement for the Merced or one that has just some of the same characteristics? It gets mighty hot here in Central Arkansas during the summer. Thanks for the help. Paul

February 12, 2009	#9
creister Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Abilene, TX zone 7 Posts: 1,478	I saw Merced transplants from Bonnie last spring 2008 at Lowe's. I thought they were rather pricey. Sioux is a very good tasting red that does well for me here.