persimmon x unknownheart f2

crazytomato · February 14, 2010

Information please,got it from a trade a few years ago.Who knows the source.I am planning to grow it this summer.

**carolyn137** · February 14, 2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by crazytomato

Information please,got it from a trade a few years ago.Who knows the source.I am planning to grow it this summer.

I don't see that anyone can give you any more information than you already have.

If the label on the seed pack said the seeds were from a cross between Persimmon and an F2 heart, then it looks like you were sent F1 seeds from that cross and only you will know what those seeds will give rise to, especially since the color of the F2 heart isn't given.

If they really are F1 seeds then all plants you grow should be identical.

have you tired to contact the person you traded with to find out more information, especially if that person was the one who did the cross?

crazytomato · February 14, 2010

That is the problem carolyn,the only thing i know for sure is i got it from a swap i had with somebody from the states.

dice · February 15, 2010

The persimmon and unknown heart were probably both
open-pollinated (not hybrid). Someone grew persimmon
plants and got one plant with big, heart-shaped fruit,
which were perhaps red or pink instead of orange-yellow.
That plant was likely the F1 (chance cross). They saved
seeds, and those seeds are probably the F2s that crazytomato
got in trade.

I had the same thing happen with JD's Special C-Tex. One
plant produced big red or pink hearts (I do not remember
the color). I saved seeds, grew a couple of plants from those
seeds the next year, and the two plants were different (thus
F2 seeds, JD's X unknown heart). One plant was two weeks
later than the other, and the fruit on the later plant were less
heart shaped. (The earlier one was tastier, so I saved F3
seeds from it. If anyone wants any, PM me.)

I guess crazytomato was simply wondering if anyone
here remembered sending him those seeds,
(Persimmon x unknown heart) F2.

travis · February 15, 2010

I would guess that if the person from whom you got the seeds grew a heart shaped, reddish persimmon from what they though were persimmon seeds that there was a seed mix-up in the first season or the tomato from which your seeds came was at least an F2 and you have F3 seeds. I don't think heart shape shows up in the F1 since round is dominant over elongated.

Elongated usually shows up in the F2 and often is expressed or accentuated in response to climatic conditions. You will see this in many F2 growouts of commercial hybrids where one parent had genes for elongated or plum shaped fruit. Not sure I would call it a true heart shape so much as a blunt heart or barrel shape in most cases.

dice · February 17, 2010

Quote:

round is dominant over elongated

Both Persimmon and JD's Special C-Tex are oblate, flattened
beefsteaks. Would these qualify as "round" genetically?

Tormato · February 19, 2010

The Persimmon x unknown heart F2 are seeds that originated with me.

My labeling was Persimmon x unknown heart? F2. My saved seed of Persimmon produced pink heart shaped tomatoes on one plant. Real hearts, not blunt ones. I assumed it crossed with one of several nearby heart varieties. F2 seed produced a 3:1 ratio of pink hearts to pink beefsteaks plants.

Gary

crazytomato · February 19, 2010

Thanks gary for responding.I planning to grow them this summer.It will be a surprise what the outcome will be.

heirloomdaddy · August 10, 2010

I would love to participate in the grow-out if you have any extra seed...I'm a persimmon AND a heart fan! I'm making a persimmon cross this week. Green giant x persimmon should be interesting.

matt

GunnarSK · August 10, 2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by crazytomato

It will be a surprise what the outcome will be.

If you get more seed than you need, you can also send some to me. I'll be able to send seeds for Polish commercial varieties to you. Just tell, and I'll send you a list in a PM.

Tormato · August 11, 2010

Matt and Gunnar,

I have about 200 seeds of Persimmon x unknown heart F2 (2007). You're both welcome to as much as you'd like. I gave seed to a T'ville member who said they produced pink globes, yellow globes, pink hearts, pink hearts with yellow stripes, and yellow and orange (bicolor?) hearts. He hasn't posted here since May of 2009, so I have not been able to contact him since then.

My growouts only produced pink hearts and pink beefsteaks in 2008. I also have seed of the best tasting of these; hearts that I've labeled "A", "B", and "C", and one beefsteak. I have 100's of seeds of "A", "C", and the beefsteak, only about 40 seeds of "B".

I have about 50 seeds of Persimmon (2006) that produced the cross. These are likely mixed with uncrossed seed.

Also, I have 100's of seeds of an Amana Orange x unknown heart cross (F3) that I received from another T'ville member.

And, I have a collection of many varieties, mostly beefsteaks and hearts.

PM me a mailing address with your requests.

Gary

**carolyn137** · August 12, 2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tormato

Matt and Gunnar,

I have about 200 seeds of Persimmon x unknown heart F2 (2007). You're both welcome to as much as you'd like. I gave seed to a T'ville member who said they produced pink globes, yellow globes, pink hearts, pink hearts with yellow stripes, and yellow and orange (bicolor?) hearts. He hasn't posted here since May of 2009, so I have not been able to contact him since then.

My growouts only produced pink hearts and pink beefsteaks in 2008. I also have seed of the best tasting of these; hearts that I've labeled "A", "B", and "C", and one beefsteak. I have 100's of seeds of "A", "C", and the beefsteak, only about 40 seeds of "B".

I have about 50 seeds of Persimmon (2006) that produced the cross. These are likely mixed with uncrossed seed.

Also, I have 100's of seeds of an Amana Orange x unknown heart cross (F3) that I received from another T'ville member.

And, I have a collection of many varieties, mostly beefsteaks and hearts.

PM me a mailing address with your requests.

Gary

Gary, did you see the picture and new thread in the photo forum where someone who got the persimmon cross for you showed one called Angel Aheart and talked about another one. I had asked where the person gor seeds from b'c I couldn't find reference to it anywhere, and now I know why:

(Sure, I can. It's from a grow-out I made from a seed packet I got in the mail marked "Persimmon x an unknown heart". I also got an orange beefsteak from the same grow-out. If the seeds that I received were F1 seeds, then "Angel Heart" and the beefsteak that I named "Samba Moon" would be F4s this year.)

Tormato · August 13, 2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by carolyn137

Gary, did you see the picture and new thread in the photo forum where someone who got the persimmon cross for you showed one called Angel Aheart and talked about another one. I had asked where the person gor seeds from b'c I couldn't find reference to it anywhere, and now I know why:

(Sure, I can. It's from a grow-out I made from a seed packet I got in the mail marked "Persimmon x an unknown heart". I also got an orange beefsteak from the same grow-out. If the seeds that I received were F1 seeds, then "Angel Heart" and the beefsteak that I named "Samba Moon" would be F4s this year.)

Carolyn,

Thank you for pointing out the other thread. I almost never go to the photo forum, so I most likely would have missed it.

In response to the other thread, I didn't "make" the cross. One of about 30, or so, hearts did.

Also, seeds that people received were F2's.

Gary

PNW_D · April 16, 2013

Had to bring this one back ...........

and here is the link referred to above

http://www.tomatoville.com/showthrea...+unknown+heart

I had 3 for 3 germination on Persimmon x unknown heart F2 I received in a trade a number of years back ..............

one plant is very small - late to germinate

of the other two, one seems to be showing signs it may be a heart - narrower leaves, etc. will post pic shortly .... maybe just wishful thinking but time will tell

Tormato · April 17, 2013

This thread is probably in the wrong forum.

Others have pointed out that Persimmon crossing with a heart would not produce heart shaped tomatoes (F1 seed).

It appears it was a sport of Persimmon that produced a plant with pink hearts.

Denise,

My F2 trials, so far, have produced...

1 gold beefsteak (6.25%)
1 pink beefsteak (6.25%)
2 gold hearts (12.5%)
12 pink hearts (75.0%)

So, your having a heart-shaped fruit producing plant seems likely, to me. I have been trialing the F2's in 2008, 2011, and 2012. I haven't got around to doing any F3's, yet. I still have about 90 seeds of the F2's to use up.

The F1 Persimmon sport was one of the oddest tomato plants I've ever seen. As a seedling, at about 6" tall, the lower branches were already 6 " long, and weeping past the top of the container it was in.

As a full grown plant, many of the branches drooped to the ground. This plant had the longest branches of any plant I've ever seen. It was loaded with tomatoes. I harvested about 50, with a few dozen greenies still on it when frost hit. There were probably another 50-100 blossoms on it when it died.

I haven't seen any F2 growouts look like the sport plant.

The pink tomatoes have tasted much better than the gold ones, in my garden.

One other oddity is that many of the hearts have a very long taper, but do not come to a point. The blossom end is like an "inee" belly-button.

Gary

February 14, 2010	#1
crazytomato Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: the netherlands Posts: 137	persimmon x unknownheart f2 Information please,got it from a trade a few years ago.Who knows the source.I am planning to grow it this summer.

February 15, 2010	#4
dice Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: PNW Posts: 4,743	The persimmon and unknown heart were probably both open-pollinated (not hybrid). Someone grew persimmon plants and got one plant with big, heart-shaped fruit, which were perhaps red or pink instead of orange-yellow. That plant was likely the F1 (chance cross). They saved seeds, and those seeds are probably the F2s that crazytomato got in trade. I had the same thing happen with JD's Special C-Tex. One plant produced big red or pink hearts (I do not remember the color). I saved seeds, grew a couple of plants from those seeds the next year, and the two plants were different (thus F2 seeds, JD's X unknown heart). One plant was two weeks later than the other, and the fruit on the later plant were less heart shaped. (The earlier one was tastier, so I saved F3 seeds from it. If anyone wants any, PM me.) I guess crazytomato was simply wondering if anyone here remembered sending him those seeds, (Persimmon x unknown heart) F2. __________________ -- alias

February 19, 2010	#7
Tormato Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: MA Posts: 4,966	The Persimmon x unknown heart F2 are seeds that originated with me. My labeling was Persimmon x unknown heart? F2. My saved seed of Persimmon produced pink heart shaped tomatoes on one plant. Real hearts, not blunt ones. I assumed it crossed with one of several nearby heart varieties. F2 seed produced a 3:1 ratio of pink hearts to pink beefsteaks plants. Gary Last edited by Tormato; August 18, 2010 at 01:23 PM.

February 15, 2010	#5
travis Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Evansville, IN Posts: 2,984	I would guess that if the person from whom you got the seeds grew a heart shaped, reddish persimmon from what they though were persimmon seeds that there was a seed mix-up in the first season or the tomato from which your seeds came was at least an F2 and you have F3 seeds. I don't think heart shape shows up in the F1 since round is dominant over elongated. Elongated usually shows up in the F2 and often is expressed or accentuated in response to climatic conditions. You will see this in many F2 growouts of commercial hybrids where one parent had genes for elongated or plum shaped fruit. Not sure I would call it a true heart shape so much as a blunt heart or barrel shape in most cases.

August 10, 2010	#9
heirloomdaddy Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Los Angeles Z10 Posts: 291	I would love to participate in the grow-out if you have any extra seed...I'm a persimmon AND a heart fan! I'm making a persimmon cross this week. Green giant x persimmon should be interesting. matt

August 11, 2010	#11
Tormato Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: MA Posts: 4,966	Matt and Gunnar, I have about 200 seeds of Persimmon x unknown heart F2 (2007). You're both welcome to as much as you'd like. I gave seed to a T'ville member who said they produced pink globes, yellow globes, pink hearts, pink hearts with yellow stripes, and yellow and orange (bicolor?) hearts. He hasn't posted here since May of 2009, so I have not been able to contact him since then. My growouts only produced pink hearts and pink beefsteaks in 2008. I also have seed of the best tasting of these; hearts that I've labeled "A", "B", and "C", and one beefsteak. I have 100's of seeds of "A", "C", and the beefsteak, only about 40 seeds of "B". I have about 50 seeds of Persimmon (2006) that produced the cross. These are likely mixed with uncrossed seed. Also, I have 100's of seeds of an Amana Orange x unknown heart cross (F3) that I received from another T'ville member. And, I have a collection of many varieties, mostly beefsteaks and hearts. PM me a mailing address with your requests. Gary

April 17, 2013	#15
Tormato Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: MA Posts: 4,966	This thread is probably in the wrong forum. Others have pointed out that Persimmon crossing with a heart would not produce heart shaped tomatoes (F1 seed). It appears it was a sport of Persimmon that produced a plant with pink hearts. Denise, My F2 trials, so far, have produced... 1 gold beefsteak (6.25%) 1 pink beefsteak (6.25%) 2 gold hearts (12.5%) 12 pink hearts (75.0%) So, your having a heart-shaped fruit producing plant seems likely, to me. I have been trialing the F2's in 2008, 2011, and 2012. I haven't got around to doing any F3's, yet. I still have about 90 seeds of the F2's to use up. The F1 Persimmon sport was one of the oddest tomato plants I've ever seen. As a seedling, at about 6" tall, the lower branches were already 6 " long, and weeping past the top of the container it was in. As a full grown plant, many of the branches drooped to the ground. This plant had the longest branches of any plant I've ever seen. It was loaded with tomatoes. I harvested about 50, with a few dozen greenies still on it when frost hit. There were probably another 50-100 blossoms on it when it died. I haven't seen any F2 growouts look like the sport plant. The pink tomatoes have tasted much better than the gold ones, in my garden. One other oddity is that many of the hearts have a very long taper, but do not come to a point. The blossom end is like an "inee" belly-button. Gary